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King Of Saiyan's
Topic Started: Feb 6 2008, 02:06 PM (779 Views)
OldBroli2
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Who do you think should have been the rightful king of all the Saiyan-jin's? I mean, King Vegeta sucked and he hardly fought. And when he fought, he fought weaker people then him with his "soldiers" besides him.

I really think that Bardock should have been the king of all Saiyan-jin's since he had the most PL and was stronger then King Vegetaand the rest of the Saiyan-jin's.

The last surviving Kanassan, a race which Bardock's team wipes out at the beginning of the Bardock TV Special, who curses Bardock with the ability to see the future. Tooro gave Bardock this ability so Bardock could see his own destruction as Tooro saw his. It takes awhile for Bardock to realize his visions are real but he finally figures it out but when he tells the Saiyan-jin's he thinks Bardock is crazy. Right as Bardock is being killed by Frieza he sees that his son Kakarot (Goku) is the one to finally destroy Frieza.

This my opinion, post yours.
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Alex
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We already discussed this. Bardock's power level was only around 800 maybe 1,000. He simply seemed very strong because of the time frame in which that movie took place. Frieza's elite soldiers were only between 200 and 300 power level so taking on a handful of them would be no problem for someone triple-quadruple as strong.

You must remember the classifications of saiyans was based on power level. Raditz was a first class with a PL of 1,200. Bardock was a third class saiyan. His power level only skyrocketed the way it did was because he almost died.

Evidence of Bardock being this weak would be still having no control over his Ouzaru (stronger saiyans were able to control themselves) and still having weakness in his tail (strong saiyans, like Nappa and Vegeta rid themselves of that weakness)

Also, during his fight with Goku on Earth, Vegeta tells Goku that his father was only an average fighter. Even after all he had done, he was still only considered to be average, which is true.

King Vegeta conquered planets with Vegeta so he wasn't weak. As was the saiyan heritage, the strongest saiyans ruled. The Vegeta family was of royal blood so it was only natural they were the strongest saiyans. Thus why Vegeta was a Super Elite (the only one) which would imply that King Vegeta was also a super elite.
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Adam1
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It was said that if he kept it up he would of surpassed King Vegeta. He was slowly becoming a lot stronger from his former weak self during the movie time.
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Alex
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Who said that? One of those underling doctors?
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Adam1
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Zarbon,Feb 6 2008
02:29 PM
Who said that? One of those underling doctors?

Probably, but take in consideration I haven't seen movie in a while I thought Frieza himself mentioned bardock's group in particular as being a problem. But either way Bardock isn't much of a leader.
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rankpowertank
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Yeah Piccolo that is the main reason why Bardock's crew was killed by Dodoria and his crew.
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typhoonchaos
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The Daizenshuu lists Bardock's power level at roughly 10,000.

King Vegeta was a filler character and never appeared in the manga. He has no listed power level nor have we seen an act of his that actually happened, other than bursting into flames.
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nirvana
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It could probably be inferred that he can control himself in Oozaru form, simply because he is one of the few who has memories of what happens.
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Alex
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Turles,Feb 6 2008
05:15 PM
The Daizenshuu lists Bardock's power level at roughly 10,000.

King Vegeta was a filler character and never appeared in the manga. He has no listed power level nor have we seen an act of his that actually happened, other than bursting into flames.

Nappa's power level was only around 4,000 and he was the commander-in-chief of the entire Saiyan army. Thus Bardock's power level was not 10,000.
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typhoonchaos
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Zarbon,Feb 6 2008
12:20 PM
Turles,Feb 6 2008
05:15 PM
The Daizenshuu lists Bardock's power level at roughly 10,000.

King Vegeta was a filler character and never appeared in the manga. He has no listed power level nor have we seen an act of his that actually happened, other than bursting into flames.

Nappa's power level was only around 4,000 and he was the commander-in-chief of the entire Saiyan army. Thus Bardock's power level was not 10,000.

But Bardock, from his own mouth, is stronger than some of their elites. Granted, he said "their" elites, meaning Freeza's men, which means those stupid bitches like Appule...
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Adam1
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Actually looking it up it does claims officially: The doctors are surprised at how powerful he is becoming, even though he is a low-class fighter, placing his power level at 10,000. So yeah he could of matched Goku and Vegeta on Earth. Also Dodoria was estimated around 20k pl. This would be accurate most likely since the video games on super nintendo listed characters power levels close to the show.
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Android 17
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I personally wouldn't be surprised if he was indeed at a level of 10,000. As Alex said earlier, he only became so insanely powerful because, as quoted in the special itself, he came back from all of his missions half-dead. He'd wear himself out completely to the point where he collapsed and had to use the rejuvenation tank back on Vegeta. So instead of estimating him at roughly 800 before his beating at Dodoria's hands it could be realistic to say he started out as such and worked his way from there to about 6,000 before Dodoria smacked the fuck out of him, which nearly killed him once again.

Adam is also right in Dodoria's power level, which is pitched at I believe 21,000 in the Namek saga. Assuming he doesn't do a lot of work in actual combat unless absolutely necessary (as with Bardock and his crew), it would be safe to say that at Bardock's time it wasn't all that much lower. Raditz being a first-class Saiyan with his power level of 1,200 and Nappa's elite status at 4,000 have very little to do with their actualy potential. Vegeta himself explained that when suffering a near-fatal wound a Saiyan skyrockets in terms of their power level.

Bardock obviously having done enough missions with admirable speed and power, and considering his tradition of coming back from them half-dead, I would assume the 10,000 attributed to him is true, while there is no evidence of either Raditz or Nappa being caught by a force so much stronger it almost cost them their lives. This is also the case with Prince Vegeta, as there basicly is nobody who would think to challenge him, lest they explain themselves to Frieza. And who would want that? As the Prince's power level was at an estimated 18,000 in the Saiyan saga, at age 32, it wouldn't be odd to attribute his father with a slightly higher power, say 20,000 roughly, as he was older than the Prince at the time of the Bardock special.

Of course after the King's death Vegeta would be used on the battlefield, which could have raised his level, giving King Vegeta maybe a bit less strength than his son, so we could place him somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000. If you look at it like this, it is very plausible that the scientists were indeed thinking Bardock could surpass their king, which in turn would also be a good reason for Frieza to issue a pre-emptive punishment of sorts, seeing Bardock's insane rise in power as a potential global threat, concerning the Saiyan race at large.

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Alex
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Ya'll are forgetting that I think someone would notice if a 3rd class Saiyan was stronger than the General of the entire army (Nappa) by over double his power.

Nappa - 4,000
Vegeta - 18,000
Bardock 1,000

/thread.
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Adam1
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Zarbon,Feb 7 2008
04:48 PM
Ya'll are forgetting that I think someone would notice if a 3rd class Saiyan was stronger than the General of the entire army (Nappa) by over double his power.

Nappa - 4,000
Vegeta - 18,000
Bardock 1,000

/thread.

I think you forgot the fact that they were more focused with dealing with Frieza then focused on that. Besides they were in 3 man teams how would they know about it? Also the classes were made when we are born so goku the strongest sayian is 3rd class? There is no way Bardock's power level was that low. It was 10,000. There was no way he could beat Frieza's elites with such a weak power level . [/thread].
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Alex
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Frieza's elites were 300-400, remember. 1,000 dominates those power levels, thus why Raditz was dominating Piccolo/Goku. Not until Gohan hurt him and then some weird trick happened was Raditz beat at all.

And yes Goku was the strongest saiyan at third class, that is one of the morales of DBZ - that people can come from the lowest rungs of the social ladder to achieve greatness. Thus why people like Nappa kept calling Goku a "low class dog."

The fact of the matter remains, Nappa was only 4,000. There is no way that Bardock, a low level, would have been stronger than the commander-in-chief of the Saiyan army. For one, the other 3 men in his unit would have realize this (its not even debated that their pls were low) and all the saiyans on the planet would have realized it as well as anybody wearing a Scouter. It just doesn't make sense.
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Adam1
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Zarbon,Feb 7 2008
10:15 PM
Frieza's elites were 300-400, remember. 1,000 dominates those power levels, thus why Raditz was dominating Piccolo/Goku. Not until Gohan hurt him and then some weird trick happened was Raditz beat at all.

And yes Goku was the strongest saiyan at third class, that is one of the morales of DBZ - that people can come from the lowest rungs of the social ladder to achieve greatness. Thus why people like Nappa kept calling Goku a "low class dog."

The fact of the matter remains, Nappa was only 4,000. There is no way that Bardock, a low level, would have been stronger than the commander-in-chief of the Saiyan army. For one, the other 3 men in his unit would have realize this (its not even debated that their pls were low) and all the saiyans on the planet would have realized it as well as anybody wearing a Scouter. It just doesn't make sense.

Where did say his elite henchman were only 300 power level? Plus rather toma and them protected him dodoria blast should of destroyed him with that low of a power level.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardock_%28Dragon_Ball%29
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Old_Bebi
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The Dragonball Wiki presents it much better (the Wikipedia article just says it's based off speculation).

From the DBW...
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While still recovering, it is mentioned by his doctors that his battle power is just reaching 10,000.


And the reference picture.

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9656/pd...00000000ly5.png

I have the special, and this is accurate.
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typhoonchaos
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The subs do not lie. That means that it is Bardock's cannon power level despite any other arguments.

However, I will tell you that no one knew Bardock was so strong because he was considered low class, so no one would be paying attention to him. He requested his missions from Freeza's men, not Vegeta's. That means that the Saiyans would never know Bardock's power, but Freeza's would, instead.

Thus why Freeza kills him and not King Vegeta. Or that could be because he was too busy killing babies that had the same power level, and then getting killed himself.

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Adam1
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Actually talking to Alex their are so many damn loopholes and crap, who fucking knows.
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Alex
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That never happened though in the subtitles of the DVD I have. That picture looks so edited it's not even funny.
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I just watched it, actually. Unfortunately, the subs for the Burdock special are seperate from the movie file, and don't get picked up in the snapshots. So, since I got a moment, here's the transcript from the subs, as taken from the dialogue between the two doctors on Planet Vegeta.

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"Burdock is as suprising as ever. It's only taken him several days to fully recover."

"Yeah, he may be a low-class warrior, but every time he goes off to clear some land, he manages to get nearly killed before returning."

"By now, his battle power should be pretty close to 10,000."

"He's quite a guy."


It's a pirated copy from a torrent, but it's from the DVD. Hell, I can switch it to English audio, if I wanna hear FUNi's script for laughs. Which, by the way, has them saying Burdock needs to be tested, 'cause he's crazy, in that scene.

Also, the doctors have silly Space Ghost villain names...
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Alex
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Well I found the scene in question at the beginning of this clip: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j1WDd21fLY4

As you can see, nothing about 10,000 is ever even mentioned. There is about 10 seconds before the scene. The only things said in that 10 seconds are:

"Bardock...if he keeps this up he'll be stronger than King Vegeta!"

"No kidding...he comes back from every mission half dead."

If you don't believe me, go watch part 1 if you don't mind waiting for it to load. Earlier today I proved one of my friends wrong about something related to Star Wars and he's a big Star Wars nerd. He says we aren't friends anymore and de-friended me on xbox and blocked me on AIM. Hopefully, ya'll won't take it so seriously since I proved ya'll wrong about this?
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Old_Bebi
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That's FUNimation's dialogue. They tend to change the ever-loving hell out of dialogue/storyline/personalities/whatever in anything Dragonball.

Don't believe me? Look at this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uZUX5hzbcUw

As opposed to this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OkksoQ435Iw&feature=related

And, of course, the ever-infamous Vegeta death scene...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cF-dhJSNT8s&feature=related

Versus the original...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g0BcBs2QaTU
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Adam1
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you got the original japanese version then? I guess we can tell from it.
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Old_Bebi
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The dialogue I posted was from the Japanese version of the special.

If you have the DVDs, the Japanese subtitle track on those are actually very accurate. Plus, it's funny to have the Japanese subs up while the english dialogue is playing. The drastic changes are good for a chuckle now and then, when you're bored.
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