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Transformations; PLEASE READ
Topic Started: Feb 18 2008, 08:02 PM (1,641 Views)
skydancer0805
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The Fool of ADBZ
Nice Turles. Gohan, don't be so modest, we all know you did the work all by your self. *sarcastic grin* Who wants to tell the admins about our idea, or did they check this topic already?
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typhoonchaos
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Saiyajin Space Pirate
Lemme' throw something into the mix. We must think of a way to get the Controlled Super Saiyan, and how to make it different.

Here are some facts.

It's not about powering up. The point is that you won't need to when you fight. You can use all of the energy it takes to transform and use it to increase your stamina, and only go higher from there.

This form is insanely more powerful than the normal Super Saiyan.

Here's what we can confirm:

1 - Virtually no ki drain.

2 - Dramatically less energy to tranform

3 - Durastically increased power and stamina

4 - Allows the user to ascend to higher levels such as Super Saiyan 2 or 3, as opposed to different grades of the first transformation (USSJ adn USSJ2).

5- Stronger than USSJ or USSJ2 (but that may just be because of the extra training that Goku and Gohan did).
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OldVeggie
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The Stronger than USSJ and USSJ2 part should be phrased differently since well the ultras have higher physical strength.

Since Goku went USSJ once and never again preferring the Ascended SS that proves its the smarter choice in battle but I think that is based off the huge drawbacks of the ultras.
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skydancer0805
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The Fool of ADBZ
Ultra Super Saiya-jin Grade 1 and Ultra Super Saiya-jin Grade 2 are both near a Super Saiya-jin 2's strength, but vastly slower, probably an increase of 80 fold to strength, but halving your speed in Super Saiya-jin. Ascended Super Saiya-jin was probably a increase of 50-70 fold to Goku and Gohan's power.

Super Saiya-jin 2 is about 80-100 fold to a Saiya-jin's power and Super Saiya-jin 3 was about 120-150 fold increase.

Also, the USSJ series is really transfering power from speed to strength and endurance.
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Alex
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I was thinking of having most significant transformations attainable at around 30,000 or 40,000 PL. I believe that with new implementations of personal saga gainages, introduction of gravity, and the percent based battle gains, people will gain stats faster than previously so it shouldn't be TOO hard to get to a super form if at this level. I still want super forms to be something that is not easily gained, though and will take months of hard work and dedication.

There will be many weaker super forms, like Zarbon's transformation and some of the suggested ones here, which will be gained at around 10,000 but will obviously not be very powerful.

Additionally, I may add kind of "pseudo super forms" that can be learned and then used in battles if certain factors are met. One example is I was thinking of adding something called Enraged, where you can learn to control your anger. Then, perhaps in a group battle or something, if your character is declared to be angered (by ref), then this super form would be unlocked for use.
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Senka
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Sounds smart. As long as you can keep the strengths and weakness of the Super Forms equal (IE- SSj doesn't dominate all) it should work out fine.

I like the Enraged thing, as long as judges pay attention(never battled, not sure)

I think the 10,000 range is good for some small transformations.

Yeah.
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typhoonchaos
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((Can a mod edit my post? I can't reach the right half of my screen because of my picture.))

I'd quote you Vegeta, but I can't get to the button.

CSSJ is indeed physically stronger than USSJ, since Vegeta couldn't dent Cell, but Goku actually went into a full on battle with him.
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Old_Bebi
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Turles,Feb 24 2008
04:58 PM
CSSJ is indeed physically stronger than USSJ, since Vegeta couldn't dent Cell, but Goku actually went into a full on battle with him.

But Cell was holding back to get some fun out of fighting Goku. Gauging Cell (and comparing people to him) is hard, with all the half-assing he did...

And I like Zarbon's idea.
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Android 17
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Aside from that, I seem to remember Vegeta blowing Cell's right half clean off and Trunks easily outpowering him.

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Old_Bebi
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Cell let them do both, though. To psyche out Vegeta and teach Trunks a lesson.

Cell was an asshole. A badass, awesome asshole.
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Android 17
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Yes, but he was taken by surprise when Vegeta fired the Final Flash because he originally thought he would just blow up the entire area, which he would've easily escaped. So technically Cell didn't let him do anything, he just let his guard down.

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typhoonchaos
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I seem to remember Goku blowing Cell's torso off.

I also seem to remember a shocked group of Z-Fighters as they gawk at a full power Goku (as well as Gohan, later).
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skydancer0805
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The Fool of ADBZ
The most common PLs I've seen for the Goku and Cell fight.

CSSJ Goku: 120,000,000

Perfect Cell: 125,000,000

And the Gohan and Cell fight.

SSJ Gohan: 110,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan: 325,000,000

Perfect Cell: 120,000,000

Zenkai Perfect Cell: 320,000,000

Then they had their big Chou Kamehameha fight.
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Senka
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After Frieza saga, it's all guesses. (Bar Trunks' suppressed scouter reading)
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typhoonchaos
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I was gonna point that out. Every power level after Trunks's 5 is either fake or used from the DBZ card game (not even close to cannon. Yamcha with 1,000,000 PL, amirite?)
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Senka
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Turles,Feb 25 2008
07:22 PM
I was gonna point that out. Every power level after Trunks's 5 is either fake or used from the DBZ card game (not even close to cannon. Yamcha with 1,000,000 PL, amirite?)

XD

Well. One really good speculation-

Is that Android Saga when Android 19(or 20?) sees Yamcha, he says he's got (either Power Level of Goku, or predicted progress)- if he hadn't gone to Namek etc. So Android saga he's got at least 10,000 - 50,000. (I know, huge range, not sure how fast they thought Goku could gain)
But again this is speculation... meaning it has no REAL fact.
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Old_Bebi
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I dunno what we're trying to prove here, but I can just say that the only time Cell got hurt by anyone but Gohan was when he got suprised, or let it happen (often a combination of both, since he had his max power supressed through the majority of the time).

Also, any PL guess that puts SSJ2 Gohan above Super Perfect Cell is beyond retarded. Hell, he broke Gohan's arm with a weak Ki shot. While Gohan was putting it all in that Kamaehamaeha and struggling, Cell was laughing and enjoying himself.
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skydancer0805
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Actually Bebi, Zenkai Perfect Cell put some power behind that shot, and Gohan was weakened from fighting him, and he was protecting Vegeta. The Chou Kamehameha battle was equal, until Vegeta shot Cell and Goku made Gohan release every bit of energy he had.
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typhoonchaos
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Frieza,Feb 25 2008
03:34 PM
Turles,Feb 25 2008
07:22 PM
I was gonna point that out. Every power level after Trunks's 5 is either fake or used from the DBZ card game (not even close to cannon. Yamcha with 1,000,000 PL, amirite?)

XD

Well. One really good speculation-

Is that Android Saga when Android 19(or 20?) sees Yamcha, he says he's got (either Power Level of Goku, or predicted progress)- if he hadn't gone to Namek etc. So Android saga he's got at least 10,000 - 50,000. (I know, huge range, not sure how fast they thought Goku could gain)
But again this is speculation... meaning it has no REAL fact.

When he fights Ginyu he's at roughly 45,000 PL.

((180,000 while using Kaio x4))
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Old_Bebi
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Tapion,Feb 26 2008
10:11 AM
Actually Bebi, Zenkai Perfect Cell put some power behind that shot, and Gohan was weakened from fighting him, and he was protecting Vegeta. The Chou Kamehameha battle was equal, until Vegeta shot Cell and Goku made Gohan release every bit of energy he had.

Man, I've seen that fight about a million times. Got it on my computer. Cell just told Vegeta he'd send him to hell, and fired a basic Ki shot, busting Gohan's arm to shit when he jumped in front of it. And while Gohan's struggling and struggling in the beam duel, trying to pull power out of his ass like never before, Cell just laughed, mocked him, and put out more power to match Gohan whenever he boosted things. And, if you go by anime filler, he still had plenty enough to smack around the rest of the Z-Fighetrs with just his aura.

Hell, before Vegeta interfered, he was seconds away from completely obliterating Gohan's blast.
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shen
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The Light Within Darkness
Correction to Turles? Even in the series, it says on Ginyu's scouter that Goku's power level is at 180,000 while in Kaioken. Hence, his normal power level is 120,000 when fighting Ginyu.

Oh and to Bebi, Gohan was only struggling because it was his first time firing a one-handed Kamehameha, and he was holding back. I mean, think about it. If Cell was really owning Gohan in terms of power, then he wouldn't have been hurt by Vegeta's energy blast that much. That, and he had plenty of time to counter Gohan's Kamehameha if he was really as strong as you say he is.
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<CENTER><select><option>Dabura</option><option>Level: 12</option><option>EXP: 140</option><option>Location: Vegeta</option><option>Stats</option><option>Power Level: 12110</option><option>KI: 6055</option><option>Strength: 1545</option><option>Speed: 1432</option><option>Toughness: 1500</option><option>Stamina: 1496</option><option>Vitality: 1514</option><option>Zeni: 835</option></CENTER>
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typhoonchaos
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Dabura,Feb 26 2008
06:10 PM
Correction to Turles? Even in the series, it says on Ginyu's scouter that Goku's power level is at 180,000 while in Kaioken. Hence, his normal power level is 120,000 when fighting Ginyu.

Oh and to Bebi, Gohan was only struggling because it was his first time firing a one-handed Kamehameha, and he was holding back. I mean, think about it. If Cell was really owning Gohan in terms of power, then he wouldn't have been hurt by Vegeta's energy blast that much. That, and he had plenty of time to counter Gohan's Kamehameha if he was really as strong as you say he is.

45,000 x 4 = 180,000

He was using Kaioken x4 (or atleast at Daizex I was led to believe so) or it would have been 90,000 since Kaioken alone only doubles power level.
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Old_Bebi
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Dabura,Feb 27 2008
01:10 AM
Oh and to Bebi, Gohan was only struggling because it was his first time firing a one-handed Kamehameha, and he was holding back. I mean, think about it. If Cell was really owning Gohan in terms of power, then he wouldn't have been hurt by Vegeta's energy blast that much. That, and he had plenty of time to counter Gohan's Kamehameha if he was really as strong as you say he is.

At no point was the one-handed nature of that Kamaehamaeha ever been shown to be, or said to be, a problem. It's just a stance (hell, Goku one-handed the attack himself, at one point). Nor was he holding back (although Goku thought he might be, when he was trying to figure out why Gohan wasn't winning). Also, Vegeta's blast didn't hurt him at all. It did, however, suprise the hell out of him. He expected everyone else to try and stop him, not Vegeta. One of Cell's major personality traits was that he had set information in him about the characters based on their cells he possesed. When someone went "out of character," he couldn't handle that. Vegeta's interference took him completely aback, causing him to lose concentration on the Kamaehamaeha, and leaving him wide open. Hence, why his last word was "VEGETA?!"
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Senka
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Uh... Didn't his Final Flash wtfpwn him?

So even if his Big Bang wasn't as strong, I'm pretty sure it hurt him. =| Someone flicks you really hard just because it won't break a bone, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
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shen
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The Light Within Darkness
Precisely. That, and it was Gohan's first time using a one-handed Kamehameha. That and his doubt in himself resulted in a subconscious suppression of his own powers.
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<CENTER><select><option>Dabura</option><option>Level: 12</option><option>EXP: 140</option><option>Location: Vegeta</option><option>Stats</option><option>Power Level: 12110</option><option>KI: 6055</option><option>Strength: 1545</option><option>Speed: 1432</option><option>Toughness: 1500</option><option>Stamina: 1496</option><option>Vitality: 1514</option><option>Zeni: 835</option></CENTER>
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