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Suggestion; Super Forms
Topic Started: Oct 4 2009, 08:14 AM (1,395 Views)
OldGoku222
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The Legend
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Why should we think of some other guys dream and leave our own alone. You are starting to make me angry because you don't give any straight facts to why other SS forms shouldn't be added. If it doesn't change the fact that SS is going to stay at 125K what's the problem. If USS SS2 SS3 and SS4 is available and you don't like it don't get the transformation. Go on without it. In the case of USS it's like Controlled Ouzaru and that Golden Ouzaru think is a fun twist to how to get SS4.

So if you can give me one concrete piece of evidence which would lead me to believe the other SS forms shouldn't be added. Then I'll listen but bare in mind I detest selfish answers like "But I want to be the only SS and SS must be the best," stuff like that really, I feel like letting Reijin give me my first warning so I can tell you what I think a person like that should go do to themselves but I won't.

Piccolo went through three transformational stages Dende that's why I added N'sync in memory with his merging with Nail. Super Namek is his reunification with Kami and it's up to the rest on what comes after. A bright and colorful transformation arsenal is incentive to work harder.

Who will want to fight you competitively Pan when you get SS? Who? Cold maybe. Not even Videl will take you on if she wants to win. Only fights you will get is people wanting to get gains. That's to be blunt the truth of the matter. You're acting like other people aren't prepare to work hard for what they want when you don't even know me or my work ethic.

If I want something I put in work no matter what it is. That's why I'm confident enough to say I'll be able to beat some one stronger then me and then people want to say I'm being arrogant when the truth is I know I planned out my strategy and worked hard to do so. People hate to hear the words "I can beat you,". Why? Pride, and I think that's the case here now. With other transformations being added SS won't be the pinnacle of power anymore. A person who's really worried about being the best would say, "Come and beat me then," and a person who was really selfless and didn't think only about how it will change their own lives would say, "Oh, well some new to look forward to,". That's the truth of the matter. Reijin if I said anything disrespectful give me the warning. Don't want special treatment. That being said no matter how hard any of you want to argue against it if you have any idea of what logic is and consideration. What being idle means and what progress can archive. You will see that my words are true and you have no claims to try and stop something that wouldn't kill you.
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Seta
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Dude, you keep talking like you're Goku himself. Why don't we just flipping WAIT until next year when I achieve SSJ -then- we'll see about adding in a bunch of weirdo transformations. As I said, the highest I can even imagine us having on here is SSJ2.

SSJ was supposed to be the pinnacle of power.
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OldGoku222
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I talk like this when I'm serious. You must be the most selfish person I know. I actually wish I never came across some one like you. Funny, how the rules say I shouldn't argue with you but you give me no choice. Pan, THE RPG IS NOT ABOUT YOU, YOU ARE STAFF NOT THE OWNER NOR THE MAIN CHARACTER, NEITHER AM I, THERE IS NO MAIN PROTAGONIST HERE, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SEE THE GAME STAY TRUE TO THE SHOW, THE SHOW THE GAME IS BASED ON. YOU KNOW THE ONE WHERE SS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE PINNACLE OF POWER BUT A LOW CLASS SAIYAN PROVED THAT'S NOT THE CASE. THAT YOU CAN BE BETTER AND GO FURTHER. DBZ WASN'T A CARTOON IN THE SENSE KILL KILL KILL. DBZ HAD A MUCH DEEPER MEANING TO IT FOR THOSE WHO COULD LOOK PAST ALL THE FLASHING LIGHTS. DBZ WAS ABOUT BREAKING PAST BARRIERS AND GOING PAST YOUR LIMITS BECAUSE OF THE SIMPLE FACT PAN THAT EVERYONE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO DO SO IN THERE OWN WAY. FUNNY HOW A DUDE WHO SENT MOST HIS TIME IN A GYM AND ON A RUGBY FIELD COULD PICK THAT UP AND YOU CAN'T.

SS2 STOP THERE WHAT IS THE POINT IN STOPPING THERE... G2G GF CALLED WILL FINISH THIS POST LATER.
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Seta
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Wow, I'm surprised. You think I'm selfish. When in fact, considering how fast I'm growing in power I'd be the first anything Saiyan on this site. You think I'm doing this for my own good? No. Vega on another site has hit SSJ3. But by then, it was just too ridiculous for me to even consider playing anymore. Everyone she fought went SSJ3 or SSJ4. It just was not fun anymore.

Also, you don't need to use caps. I'm being very calm right now. You haven't even stopped to consider alternatives to adding SSJ2 and the like, have you? You can ALWAYS upgrade your form.

There is Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, and Full-Power Super Saiyan.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ascended_Super_Saiyan
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ultra_Super_Saiyan
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Full-Power_Super_Saiyan

There are three forms right there that you can achieve before you even THINK about hitting SSJ2. In total, you would have SIX forms for the saiyans to hit. (Oozaru, Giji, SSJ1, Ascended, Ultra, Full-power)

Now doesn't even the idea of an SSJ2 seem ridiculous?
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bizkitboylee100
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I love you Pan.

Its true, you have a bucketload of possible transformations even before you get to ssj2.

The most interesting to introduce into this rpg would be the ultra one, with speed drains and vitality taking hits in exchange for stamina, toughness and strength.

Then of course you have your full power ssj
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Seta
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Indeed. A person would have to weigh the pros and cons of going ultra, especially during an official saga. 'Well...I'll be slower but I will have a lot of power...but how do I know how fast this guy can get?'

Of course all of that would be WAY off from now.
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OldGoku222
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So you want to add discarded forms to the game instead of add Ascended, Ultra and Full-Power to the normal SS form.

25 SP to upgrade, Ascended, Ultra and Full-Power, that's like almost 75 SP just to upgrade to a discarded form. Isn't that more reasonable. Doesn't that make it more fun? Vegeta and Trunks went Ascended and Goku joined them with Ultra. Goku and Gohan did Full-Power. Gohan skipped Ascended and Ultra.

You can't make them transformations on their own Pan. That would be a waste of time and space.

You're not using logic in your argument. You're arguing because you don't want to lose. Next you're going to say no to what I just said because you don't want it that way.

The compromise I made is more then good. Ascended can triple strength. Ultra can quadruple it at a loss of speed. Full-Power can decrease ki consumption. You don't have to buy them all to get the one you want but having them all can come in handy in different situations.

Taking it to Super Namek now. It should be stronger then the first SS at least. Since Piccolo could take on 17 and when SS Vegeta and Trunks didn't have a chance against them.

So as I know you by now. You want to prove you can make a better point then me. So, come and do it. I'm waiting.
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Seta
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Who said anything about upgrading? It would have a certain PL to reach, and another quest you would have to do.

It's funny, considering Geist agreed with me. How many TRULY think we should add things like SSJ2 and such like? It is not a waste of time and space.

I could easily gain that much SP in a short amount of time. Now, having a PL minimum and another quest, that would take some time. Besides, is this not an RP game? On the site I RP Vega as...this is the system for getting the SSJ forms (I know A19 knows the site I'm talking about, don't you 19?)

Required Power Level for Super Saiyan: 1,000,000
You start off the game at about 250,000. You make a few good training posts and battle a few times, and you get Super Saiyan for barely any work. You need 10 battle experience, which you can receive in about 2 battles if you do things right.

And here is where we get into the argument portion-
Ascended Super Saiyan requires: 1,750,000
Again, quite easy to grab. Just battle some more, post more, and you get it. You just add it to your character sheet and you have it. No quests needed. Basically you are just using your battle experience to upgrade. Easy peasy

Ultra Super Saiyan requires: 2,500,000 and 30 battle experience. Again, you can get this with little work.

To give you a bit of a background, my character on that site is at 14,704,000 for Power Level. She has reached Ultra Super Saiyan, and if I battle some more she would be at SSJ2. With very little work.

Here however, Pan still has a ways to go until she hits SSJ. As 19 will attest, I am a LOT more active here. Why? Because there is a lot more challenge. But you change things to the point where you can just shell out SP to get higher levels of Super Saiyan, and it just becomes something with no real challenge except to save your SP.
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Theo
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So, I have made up my mind. I am completely in agreement with Goku and nothing anyone says will me make me change my desicion. I mean super forms is what RPG is all about. Who would like waiting a huge amount of time to get transformations. It tends to get boring but the only thing is that you are determined to achieve the hardest role. But it would be fun if you get a few super forms early. And if everyone manages to get something then the only thing that will happen is that COMPETITION WILL GET TOUGH! Battles will be nail-biting and you won't look on a gloomy side to roleplay for a few months to get a super form and roleplay for many more months to get another.

So I VOTE FOR GOKU!!!

ALMOST A BRILLIANT IDEA TO BRING THE ELEMENT OF FUN INTO THE GAME!!!

THREE CHEERS!
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Angira
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These are my opinions:

Gigi SSJ: Is retarded. It's a 'fake' form of super Saiyan. Even in that dragonball wiki they said it was a false form of SSJ and more of a 'glorified kaioken'. "It was origionally given the true form of a Super Saiyan, but then relabed as Giji or "False" Super Saiyan after the actual Super Saiyan form was introduced in the manga series."

All it is is basically a rage boost and that's it.

Ascended SSJ: Is you basically just training your SSJ. It'd be like going from Uncontrolled Oozaru to Controlled Oozaru. And I quote, 'achieved through intense training in the Super Saiyan form'. Therefore this isn't even a different form, just you training while in this form to make your strength stronger.

It's basically be like saying, "Ascended Super Namek". You could do this to any race with a transformation.

Ultra SSJ: This one I could agree with. It's a glorified Oozaru transformations. Gaining strength at the loss of speed. Mind you the boost is massive compaired to the great ape, but it's essentially the same thing and could definitely be included.

Full Powered SSJ: Refer to Ascended SSJ. All this is, is once again you training your SSJ form. Same thing as going from Uncontrolled Oozaru to Controlled. Any race could potentially do this, it'd be like saying, "Full Powered Super Namek".


Final note.

Other than USSJ, these SSJ forms would simply be a complete and utter waste to have in an RPG. I could see the potential of Gigi, but like the wiki says, it's simply a glorified Kaioken state and any race could really have it.

IE: Gigi Super Namek (False Super Namek)

No I'm not petitioning to get rid of it, I'm just saying, other than USSJ, the rest of these forms are honestly worthless. =\
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Theo
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Hey Reijin! We both posted at the same time. Mind you read my post. I agree with you too.
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Seta
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I respect your opinions, but you should also respect my own arguments against adding SSJ2 and the like.

I personally have some ideas bouncing around in my head about how to do the added-on SSJ forms. I would be happy to share them with you if you'd like.
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Angira
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As for your post Dende.

While I agree that there are perks to gaining early transformations:

+ Intense battles
+ Intriguing RP'ing
etc

There are some downsides to having too many low power transformations.

What do we do about those members that have been here for 1 year + that have the requirements for the final tier of power, IE Pan.

She's extremely close to SSJ1 right now, placing her at the pinacle of Saiyan power. If we added more transformations in, or lowered the requirements, the work she put into gaining SSJ1 would basically go to waste.

Mind you, I know that we could add more transformations in, but let me ask you this.

2 people are battling.

Base PL:
+ Joe: 10,000 PL
+ Mike: 10,000 PL

No Transformations:
+ Joe: 10,000 PL
+ Mike: 10,000 PL

First Teir Transformations:
+ Joe: 11,000 PL
+ Mike: 11,000 PL

Second Tier Transformations:
+ Joe: 20,000 PL
+ Mike: 20,000 PL

As you can see, the difference in power isn't there. It would, in essance, be the exact same battle as if they had no transformations. So would it really be worth it?

Also, if you're looking for longevity in an RPG, you have to give something for people to work for, otherwise, as Pan said, there's no reason to RP other than to just RP.

By making transformation requirements too low, people earn them and then find themselves bored because people won't battle them anymore, or they have nothing to try to gain anymore.

My personal opinion is that the requirements for most Super Forms should be about equal. Saying that you have to work harder to gain your transformation is all a matter of opinion. Some people can easily gain 50k in a few months while it might take another person a year.

However, if we had a semi-linear Super Form System, it might be benefital for everyone.


IE:

Nameks: Warrior Namek (Req: 45,000 PL)
Saiyan: Gigi SSJ (Req: 45,000 PL)
Changeling: Transformation 2 (Req: 45,000 PL)


The idea would basically be to give each Race 4 different forms, with some exceptions with variant gains. Such as USSJ (would give the same benefits as SSJ2, but with reduced speed).

But that's just my opinion. I think that you shouldn't choose your race based on how much power you're going to earn, but for the longevity of your character. What's the point in selecting a character you don't want to play or dislike simply to gain a bit of extra power, only to then get into a battle and get yourself whooped because you can't RP that well as your character?

I understand that in the show, it was basically Super Saiyan Ball Z, but if we're going to make the races unbalanced and what not, everyone's gonna wanna be the most powerful race for obvious reasons.

If you were in war, you wouldn't choose a hand grenade over a nuclear bomb if you wanted to win and on most RPGs, Saiyan = Nukes.
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Blank
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I hate it when all transformations are equal.
As Reijin said with the whole power indifference, it would be dull. There would be no reason to transform.

Variety needs to be constant.

The Super Forms all seem pretty fine atm, so I don't know why people are thinking of changing them. o.O
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Angira
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When I said equal, I didn't mean by amount of power gain btw, I just meant the total amount of transformations.

IE: Saiyans have 3 right now, Changelings have 4, Humans have 2.

Right now, the goal I have is to make it so that all races have 4. Personally, I'd like Pan to help me, especially with the Saiyans since she is only 20k from SSJ1, I honestly think that her being that close entitles her to a say lol.

While the additional transformations may not be as strong as some of the others, they should benefit the users enough to solidify a small change in power ranks.

But this is all in the stage of planning and not actual addition, so we've got plenty of time to discuss it.

This doesn't mean it'll happen, in the end it comes down to Alex's opinion, I'm just hoping to make something he likes xD
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bizkitboylee100
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Just leave the level requirements to what we have now and add another humie one somewhere down the line and it should be more or elss equal.

As Pan says, its a challenge here to get to ssj, something that requires time and effort. Making ssj easymode would kill off any sense of achievment around here, especially when you have about 20 guys running round as ssj1 etc.

Edit: just read the "passives" addition, finally a change that I approve ;)
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Theo
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I read passives already.

Plus the achievement won't be SSJ. It would be A higher SSJ!

And why do you just take Saiyans in consideration. What about other races. Are they here to die?
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bizkitboylee100
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I cannot see any problem with the other superforms to be fair, just changing the top end ones would be a bit silly.
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Seta
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Well Dende, hasn't it always been said that Saiyans are the strongest race in the universe due to their ability to get stronger and stronger with every battle they win or lose?
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Angira
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I do think that Human, Demons, Nameks, and the like need a third transformation, something to fill the gab between 15,000 PL - 100,000 PL

Maybe something like 55,000 PL that grants less than the 100,000 PL transformation but more than the 15k.
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Seta
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The other site I'm on gives levels to Super Namek (IE Super Namek 1, Super Namek 2 and so on) They also give levels to the Fury forms like Fury 1, Fury 2, etc.,

Basically, the same numeration as the Super Saiyan forms.
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Angira
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=O

I'm cool with whatever's decided really. I just hate when Saiyans are the strongest race just because they are Saiyans.

We need to come to a decision. Either we do this like the anime or we don't, becuase everyone keeps saying "In the anime" and then "we dont' do it exactly like the anime". We've gotta make a decision here. xD
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Seta
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I'm for staying true to what Toriyama wanted (Meaning, no SSJ2)
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bizkitboylee100
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I vote for just introducing a midrange humie/alien/namek transformation
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Angira
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Pan,Oct 5 2009
09:59 AM
I'm for staying true to what Toriyama wanted (Meaning, no SSJ2)

I'm 100% cool with that as well.

For the sake of keeping with that, I guess your additional SSJ forms could potentially work out.

Go from:

Oozaru
Gigi
SSJ1
Ascended SSJ
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