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Suggestion; Kaio-Ken Upgrade
Topic Started: Oct 6 2009, 10:24 AM (1,241 Views)
OldGoku222
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Well, as I've seen the Kaio-Ken, the way it damages you is by ripping your apart because of the massive energy surge it gives you. It also seems to be somewhat affected by how high in gravity you've gone(shown by Goku getting to x10 under 100x Gravity with only moderate effort).

I would say the Kaio-Ken goes in two ways; 1)The higher the level of Kaio-Ken you are at, the harder it is to control. This is basically saying, if you're at x1, it won't do much to you because it's not the extreme boost in power the higher levels are. In fact, it's actually a pretty small boost in power(about 700 Str and Spd at 21k PL). So the extra energy is not ripping you to shreds from the inside out. At high levels, like x7 or x8, the energy has increased greatly, and your body won't be used to such energy because you've cleared your max, usually by about 3250-4000 Str and Spd boost(about a 7k to 8k boost in PL). This massive increase in strength and speed could potentially rip your muscles to shreds. But, there's another factor to conisder, and that is...

#2: Gravity. Yes, Gravity does affect the damage you could take from the Kaio-Ken. Looking at Goku's sudden jump in skill in that technique in the Namek Saga, it shows that gravity does indeed affect how much damage you take from the Kaio-Ken. This works because under higher gravity, your body is being pulled to the center of the gravity well, and it probably isn't used to that level of weight. In a way, it's trying to rip you apart and pull you to the center, which is similar to the side effects of the Kaio-Ken, which is trying to rip you apart as well. At extreme levels of gravity, like x50-x100, your body is undergoing massive amounts of stress and most likely massive amounts of pain. After that kind of training, the Kaio-Ken at x1 or x2 would probably not hurt you at all and be only a small drain on your stanima. Higher levels, like x7, would still be quite painful and stressful, but you would be better ready for that same stress and pain because you conditioned your body to operate in very similar conditions.

Basically guys, don't just say, "Oh, it'd be a 3% drain per level". No, that's not taking in the multiple factors of the damage Kaio-Ken would cause you. The higher your power, the less it hurts, because you are tougher and more enduring. The higher the gravity you've trained in and the longer you've trained in that same gravity, the less it hurts, for you have already put your body under great amounts of stress. And the more you use the Kaio-Ken, the easier it gets to control it, for you are continuously putting your body under large amounts of stress.

The only footnote I do want to put for the Kaio-Ken is that if someone uses something like...Kaio-Ken x6 or higher, and they've only recently received that level(like in the past 4 weeks or so) and they've trained in gravity less the 5 times that level of Kaio-Ken, then in battle that they use the Kaio-Ken at that level for it's entire duration, then referees should say if the Kaio-Ken has damaged them enough to warrant a week off(or rejuv tank) if they win the battle. Because if you look at it RP wise, the Kaio-Ken rips you apart from the inside and after a battle, you would be hurting for a long time from using an extreme level of Kaio-Ken.

That's everything your friendly, neighborhood Tapion has to say. :D *swings out on a web line before getting shot down by Stan Lee's lawyers*


Okay that's the quote. Now for my case.

I have asked the question: Can Kaio-Ken be upgraded to the point where users can use level 20. Not mystic Kaio-Ken which halves the cost but normal Kaio-Ken with more levels.

My argument for this to be included in the upcoming patch is the following. Kaio-Ken can be used with Giji in the rpg right? Well, Giji is Kaio-Ken actually. Maybe just drawn a little different almost like FSS and SS. So a part of my argument is to have Giji removed since it's just a "glorified Kaio-Ken" anyways. This will allow space for other super forms like SS2, 3 and 4 which were not just used in one episode to be added.

Going back to Kaio-Ken itself I suggest more levels are added and the following to help decide how much damage it does to the user. Like my friend Tapion said, the stronger Goku became the easier it was for him to use increase levels of Kaio-Ken. If you noticed the percentage Kaio-Ken also adds you'll notice that obviously there will be a number that will be given when you work out for example 9% of the X amount. I suggest one of two things concerning this. One if the X amount of the percentage is higher then a certain X, meaning a person who's PL is 1000 X amout of the percentage will be less then a person who's PL is 2000, damage is lessen allowing for more levels to be added.

Or we can go on every 10% damage levels are decreased by 25% meaning by the time you are at Kaio-Ken level 20 your damage is halved. So to make it more simpler every ten level decreases damage and increase gains the cap being 20-25. That way mystic Kaio-Ken which doesn't really exist as far as I know (I could be wrong) can be canceled out.

At the end of the day this will allow, depending on how many kaio-ken levels you add and how much you let every 5 or 10 levels decrease damage, Giji which is not even a real transformation to be removed. All the SS forms to be added which will make it more true to the show DBZ and DBGT. Which Razak displayed he liked:

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This is a good idea, I think I'm going to do that and then make it so if Demons use it, it gets a slight power boost as well.

I have a little work to do with techniques, I plan on changing the kamehameha system as well as adding a few techs that I learned about from watching GT.


I want to thank the person who helped me get this useful information, Pan. If it wasn't for you posting that link I would have never came up with an argument and a suggestion so good. So thank you.

Goku here,
Legend out!!!
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Seta
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Giji is not Kaio-Ken. I really wish people would leave things as they are right now. As has been mentioned, you NEVER made these types of suggestions BEFORE you became Goku. I wonder why?
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Komandr
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lol i wonder if it has anything with him being goku?

Anyways I do disagree with lvl 10 Kaio Ken doing 10% damage. The higher your PL, the less damage it should be able to do with it.
HOWEVER
I strongly disagree with the ss2,3,4,573, ect. The transformations are pretty balanced how they are now. Goku, Damnit will you leave this topic alone?
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OldGoku222
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Never, I don't give up. Pan, obviously a person with good judgment would think things through before going in somewhere guns blazing. Kaio-ken can be upgraded. Why does change scare you so much? Either way it's a suggestion. Up to Alex to decide.

I don't give up. Doesn't matter if it'll take me forever all the super forms will be seen here, this rpg and this community deserves it.
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
03:24 PM
this community deserves it.

BUT WE DON'T WANT IT
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OldGoku222
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Well you will sooner or later. Take of that SS2 pic so long then. Proof your point, son.
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
03:31 PM
Well you will sooner or later. Take of that SS2 pic so long then. Proof your point, son.

Dew gewd englush lawlz!

Maybe it'll be added eventually, but why does that matter? It's taken Pan like a year and a half to get close to SSJ1. SSJ2 isn't even in the picture yet.
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OldGoku222
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A wise man once told me look past your goals to determine your future.
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
03:37 PM
A wise man once told me look past your goals to determine your future.

Well he's wrong because right now it would be smarter to implement it in the future when balancing and the like could be accounted for.
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OldGoku222
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Proud of you, my boy. Valid point. How about putting on paper the rest of the SS forms are going to be added and give me the requirement for them. Then maybe, I'll call it a truce.
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
03:39 PM
Proud of you, my boy. Valid point. How about putting on paper the rest of the SS forms are going to be added and give me the requirement for them. Then maybe, I'll call it a truce.

I'll give you this much, SSJ2 probably would require 400k+ PL.
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OldGoku222
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Why that much if I may ask?
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nirvana4748
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Doesn't it only make sense that SSJ2 is considerably harder to get than SSJ1?
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OldGoku222
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Whom was the first to get SS2 and how long was that person SS before that happened?
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
03:47 PM
Whom was the first to get SS2 and how long was that person SS before that happened?

Gohan was the first to go SSJ2 and he couldn't do it until he trained himself so well in the SSJ1 state that it was like being in a reverted form.
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OldGoku222
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He also stayed in the HBTC for a year to do so. Cover all your point, son. How long did it take Pan to reach SS about a year, don't you think it would be fair to not make it a joke by letting it take almost 4 years to do so. Your argument is great but you lack consideration and some knowledge in it. I know what your response will be. Let me see if I'm right or let me see if I'm underestimating you.
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
03:54 PM
He also stayed in the HBTC for a year to do so. Cover all your point, son. How long did it take Pan to reach SS about a year, don't you think it would be fair to not make it a joke by letting it take almost 4 years to do so. Your argument is great but you lack consideration and some knowledge in it. I know what your response will be. Let me see if I'm right or let me see if I'm underestimating you.

1. It's great that you know what my response will be, because I can't even understand yours.

2. It takes about 100k to get SSJ. From there, you're really multiplying that number by less than 3 (2.5ish) to get the number to advance you from SSJ to SSJ2.
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BannedZeshin
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The whole Giji SSJ is just a "glorified" Kaio-Ken thing has to be your worse argument yet. It is just a half-way point between SSJ and your base form, so it is essential that it stays.

Also, if we add all the SSJ transformations, then I want you to make suggestions for races like Aliens, Changelings, Namekians, and Demons to have a transformation equivalent to a SS1, SS2, SS3, and SSJ4.
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OldGoku222
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That's 312,500. How about 275,000. That's more fair and more then double.

I did go read Suggestion Super Form. Read it thoroughly and the you tell me whose the strongest race.
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
04:01 PM
That's 312,500. How about 275,000. That's more fair and more then double.

No, doubling the SSJ requirements just means that you're starting over essentially; it's like getting SSJ1 all over again. It needs to be significantly harder than getting SSJ.

Think about it like a video game. Beating it on easy is fine and dandy, but beating it on nightmare mode is a whole different story.

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That's 312,500.


Yay, that's right! And what's 312,500 + 125,000?
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OldGoku222
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Depends what game you playing. 300,000 then. 400,000 is too much. There should be space for the rest while we can still be alive. Like I said 6 years to get all forms is long enough. How many members have been here for 3 out of 3 years?
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 6 2009
04:06 PM
Depends what game you playing. 300,000 then. 400,000 is too much. There should be space for the rest while we can still be alive. Like I said 6 years to get all forms is long enough. How many members have been here for 3 out of 3 years?

My question is, why are you so obsessed with super forms?
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OldGoku222
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Role players thirst. Want to role play in all of them. Feel which one I will use the most and the rest I'll use if I really need them.
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Seta
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I think my poll in the pub at last count was somewhere along 11 for keeping to just SSJ, while 7 or 8 was for going on. I think the community spoke there, Goku.
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Deus
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It's Dragonball Z, superforms are the main point.
In the series they hardly ever fought in their normal form. That and saiyans are like spawns of satan. Everyone likes them and wants to be one and omfg they´re strong and awesome and *rant*

My point is, no use trying to argue about super forms when the context its used in basically lives off of it. This you have to agree on; DBZ was a sucky super saiya-jin fest. Be it ssj1 or ssj5million, superforms are overused. Deal with it ^^

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