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Suggestion; Kaio-Ken Upgrade
Topic Started: Oct 6 2009, 10:24 AM (1,242 Views)
Drei
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Cosmic Empress
My suggestion on Kaio-ken would be not to increase it's levels. I don't even believe Tasuda should have created the Perfect/Mystic Kaio-ken to be honest.

Kaio-ken x10 offers [+4,750] to both your Strength and speed in addition to the 19%, for three actions. All at the small cost of [10%] Vit/Ki for each use and two power up slots.

That is a substantial gain, especially if you are fighting someone that is near equal or a moderate amount stronger then you in power.

Tasuda's Mystic Kaio-ken x 20 offered [+9,750] to both your Strength and speed in addition to the 29%, for three actions. All at the small cost of [5%] Vit/Ki for each use and three or four power up slots.

That is just a ridiculous gain for something that last for three actions being at such a low cost. It beats out all first tier transformations with it's boost in power compared to cost.

About that second paragraph. I am not sure as to what you mean when you say "I do not know what you see me as." Personally I see you right now as a person with an opinion that you wish to be heard.

And about this last paragraph. When a discussion starts to get off topic it turns to be nothing but just spam to the original topic. As a bystander to this discussion, after witnessing it last for four pages out of the four that make up this thread, I can walk by see it and ask for it to be closed in order decrease the amount of crap that gets thrown around in the thread.

If you would like for this topic to be taken more seriously, I would suggest not continuing to speak everyone that disagrees with you the way that you have been and get this discussion back on to it's original source.
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OldGoku222
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Now that people is how you argue your point.

I don't mind people who disagree with me. As long as they have a valid point which consist of evidence and logic. Otherwise they are just looking for trouble and they will get it since staff does not give out warnings to people who bare a personal vendetta against another member who has an opinion.

My question is why do staff get to decide they will now lock the topic when they see they can not argue there points correctly?

Next back to Kaio-Ken, I have a question for you. How many times can you use kaio-ken during a battle?

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Drei
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Kaio-ken can be used endlessly in battle. That is another reason why Kaio-ken should not or ever have been modified. Of course if you don't have the Vit/ki to preform the tech then you cannot use it.

Edit: A staff member can close any topic if the feel it is causing to much argument among the members.
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OldGoku222
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What if the staff member was the cause of an arguement? Does that sound fair to you?

Back to Kaio-Ken.

Quote:
 
All at the small cost of [10%] Vit/Ki for each use and two power up slots.


Hope I get the maths right. You say a small cost of 10% vit and 10% ki? So if you use it 10 times that means 30 actions. You die? To be more accurate even if you used it from the start of the battle changes are you won't be able to use it ten times. That's like telling a guy with a gun with 10 bullets to kill 20 guys armed with lead pipes by shooting the bullets through his own hand first. Visual example how you hand in front of the exit and shoot the guys. How many guys will he actually kill before they kill him, Cold? That's what Kaio-Ken is right now.

If however power was increased to 20x and damage was lowered isn't that more like how Kaio-Ken progressed in the show and more like how Tapion argued it?

As for comparing it with a super form. Well, that is ludacris. Not only do super forms get all stats increased by a number and a %. It is permanent and does not take cost as much as Kaio-Ken not nearly. Valiant effort, though.
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Drei
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Quote:
 
Hope I get the maths right. You say a small cost of 10% vit and 10% Ki? So if you use it 10 times that means 30 actions. You die? To be more accurate even if you used it from the start of the battle changes are you won't be able to use it ten times. That's like telling a guy with a gun with 10 bullets to kill 20 guys armed with lead pipes by shooting the bullets through his own hand first. Visual example how you hand in front of the exit and shoot the guys. How many guys will he actually kill before they kill him, Cold? That's what Kaio-Ken is right now


Well, a bullet through the hand would not hurt as much as what those guys could do to you in the moderate amount of time it would take before you pass out. So if the person that has the gun is in fear of his life and is smart. He would know that most of the pain will subside due to the adrenaline and he would then just have to properly align his shot so that he takes out people one behind the other as they stumble over the bodies making their way threw the door.

Quote:
 
If however power was increased to 20x and damage was lowered isn't that more like how Kaio-Ken progressed in the show and more like how Tapion argued it?


We are not the show and we don't want any technique to be so highly over powered then the next. Kaio-ken is already a favored technique among the members.

Quote:
 
As for comparing it with a super form. Well, that is ludicrous. Not only do super forms get all stats increased by a number and a %. It is permanent and does not take cost as much as Kaio-Ken not nearly. Valiant effort, though.


Note that when I compared Kaio-ken to the first tier of transformations, it was Tasuda's version [Mystic] that was in comparison.
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OldGoku222
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Well, you did not mention that. Okay let me look at this. I know of Digu who recently got the tech, nappa, raditz, tapion who has been unseen for a while (I don't know why), future gohan and tasuda who is gone. Who else? I counted 6 people there 2 of which is missing. I might be wrong and somebody else may have it but at the moment saying something is favored and proofing it are tow different things.

First tier transformation Cold and mystic Kaio-Ken? First of all Kaio-Ken can be used by first tier transformation users I have noticed. Next most first tier transformations around +300 all stats, +30% average. You must be at level 30,000 for say Kyodaika. If all your stats are even that would make your power level go to 42,500. Remember it doesn't get a speed boost.

Let's say for this argument the Kaio-Ken users pl is 20,000 no 25,000 let's make this more real. Kaio-Ken 20x will give him 9,750 Str and Spd + 29%. That would make his pl go up to 51,968. For three actions per post. Max of 5 times per battle in my oppinion. After that you use it again and you die. You are messed up if you use it more then three times and you use a advanced move a few times and maybe a finisher two if you have left. In my book if they are evenly skilled the Namek still wins.

Why? Namekians tou and vit get increased at a no loss of speed. Kaio-Ken gets huge gains on speed and strengh, Their tou and vit is still at 3,750 and it the user gets damaged at every use. My point being even if users had Kaio-Ken 20X even a first tier form has the advantage.
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Deus
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Goku, you're annoying me.

How are you seriously reacting to what I post? Am I not stating what I think? Did I ever say that what I said were facts? I'm not aiming to beat anyone with logic or evidence, people beat themselves by missing things that are just that damn obvious that they needn't be said.
People who don't read are assholes.

Now tell me Goku, are you an asshole?
I am a Fallen angel.
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OldGoku222
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Well, I read the facts before opening my mouth. People who don't read facts and then open their mouths and enter a debate by saying something that doesn't post hoping to help the topic or counter it by bring the needed evidence and the needed logic are super jackasses.

I believ you should ask yourself the question you asked me and then you must go look in the mirror and think about this question. Are you a jackass as well Deus?

I don't care if you are getting annoyed. Who are you anyways and why should I care when you don't need to read the topic or what I say since you are obviously not trying to help this topic progress.

Don't keep you smart when you are in the wrong buddy.
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Deus
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I aint keeping my smart, neither my wrong. I'm not trying to prove anything, nor disprove anything. I'm simply stating what I think, never saying I know it to be true for sure. And somehow, you keep reacting as if I was stating a fact.

Am I missing something? Aside from your blatant ignorance, that is ^^
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 7 2009
02:40 PM
Well, you did not mention that. Okay let me look at this. I know of Digu who recently got the tech, nappa, raditz, tapion who has been unseen for a while (I don't know why), future gohan and tasuda who is gone. Who else? I counted 6 people there 2 of which is missing. I might be wrong and somebody else may have it but at the moment saying something is favored and proofing it are tow different things.

First tier transformation Cold and mystic Kaio-Ken? First of all Kaio-Ken can be used by first tier transformation users I have noticed. Next most first tier transformations around +300 all stats, +30% average. You must be at level 30,000 for say Kyodaika. If all your stats are even that would make your power level go to 42,500. Remember it doesn't get a speed boost.

Let's say for this argument the Kaio-Ken users pl is 20,000 no 25,000 let's make this more real. Kaio-Ken 20x will give him 9,750 Str and Spd + 29%. That would make his pl go up to 51,968. For three actions per post. Max of 5 times per battle in my oppinion. After that you use it again and you die. You are messed up if you use it more then three times and you use a advanced move a few times and maybe a finisher two if you have left. In my book if they are evenly skilled the Namek still wins.

Why? Namekians tou and vit get increased at a no loss of speed. Kaio-Ken gets huge gains on speed and strengh, Their tou and vit is still at 3,750 and it the user gets damaged at every use. My point being even if users had Kaio-Ken 20X even a first tier form has the advantage.

WAIT SO THERE'S A DRAWBACK TO USING KAIOKEN?

WHO WOULDA THUNK IT?!

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OldGoku222
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Well yeah you missed my confidence and mistaked it for arrogance. You entered an argument and you got more then you expected. That's what happend. So let's stop this unless you want to talk about Kaio-Ken, sir.
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Deus
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Honestly, I could care less about kaio ken. It gives you an advantage over people who haven't got it, so why fix it?

Also, why are you stopping with your whole 'I'm better then you' act? I was starting to have fun ^^
I am a Fallen angel.
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OldGoku222
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Gohan, the example was to show that even if KKx20 is added it would still not compare to a first tier transformation loke KC was worried about and I proved it. Do you have anything else to add to the KK discussion

Dues, well duh. I won't get a tech because I want to have an advantage over my opponent. I get a tech because I want him to beat me. And do you really think I'll fall for that tactic and lower myself to your standard for your entertainment. If you can not argue a point and in this topic about KK then go post in the random chat thread and show your intellegence there, son.
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Deus
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Hm.. You say you won't stoop to my level.. Yet here you are, reacting to it.

Irony ^^
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nirvana4748
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Goku,Oct 7 2009
03:15 PM
Gohan, the example was to show that even if KKx20 is added it would still not compare to a first tier transformation loke KC was worried about and I proved it. Do you have anything else to add to the KK discussion

Dues, well duh. I won't get a tech because I want to have an advantage over my opponent. I get a tech because I want him to beat me. And do you really think I'll fall for that tactic and lower myself to your standard for your entertainment. If you can not argue a point and in this topic about KK then go post in the random chat thread and show your intellegence there, son.

There's a reason that Kaioken is a powerup and Kyodaika is a transformation.

That is all.
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OldGoku222
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Well I reacted by giving you advance. You just now admitted to being at a low if I may be so bold to suggest scum level but I won't. So you can do what you want. Staff will see all of this posts and will see who was looking for trouble and who posted with no intent of helping the topic along.

So continue my friend. I want to speak about KK. What do you want to speak about?

So what is your point Gohan?
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Deus
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Who had no intent of helping this topic? When i jumped into this topic there was a discussion going on about ssj1-2-3-4-gazillion. So i stepped in and let people hear my oppinnion about saiyans.

They're overpowered if you add more superlevels. In a way kaio-ken makes everyone relate to saiyans. I say, and said, leave saiyans, as well as kaioken, alone. We don't need more hassle with the stupid race of miniature king kongs. At least i don't.

Bottom line, i did help, with something YOU were discussing. So don't be thinking I'm wrong, you just dont know how i think, 'son'.
I am a Fallen angel.
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OldGoku222
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How did you help? By talking about stuff like Ascended SS$. Don't pretend to be an idiot, son. you had no intent on helping. you did not even read the whole thing.

The discussion went from KK to more super forms for saiyans and balancing it out with the rest meaining it WON'T BE STRONGER! lol you're a genius dude.

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Deus
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I never said anything that could possibly lead you to believe i wasn't helping.
The way i see it, my input was valuable enough to base a real, based on fat, reason.

Yet you always think i am stating facts. Why does everyone think i am doing something when i dont say i am doing it?

'This is a fact' <-- Thats me, stating a fact.
Get your eyes checked and reread all my posts. No post i made states i was spouting facts.
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OldGoku222
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Now read this: You can not help an argument without facts. That clear enough for you, boyo.

So that makes what you said invalid and unhelpful.
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Deus
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But.. Remember how i said i couldn't see how anyone could say i wasn't helping?

Well.. I didn't say i was helping, either ^^
I am a Fallen angel.
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Komandr
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Okay, the insults have gone far enough, Can someone lock this?
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nirvana4748
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Lock it? That won't do anything. Goku made this thread to bypass another locked thread.
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Komandr
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That itself is a warrent for a warning, but I will leave it to another mod, once I get in contact with one.
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bizkitboylee100
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Goku, stop trying to get your ideas across.

Its been discussed, both my members and mods. Please do not make another thread as it would lead to more arguing, namely between anybody who disagrees wth your ideas and you.
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