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Undodgable Fundamentals
Topic Started: Dec 3 2010, 09:43 PM (789 Views)
OldTarble
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Ok so Ive noticed many people creating undodgable fundamentals. Seeing as how fundamentals have no limit on how often you can use them, I dont think there should be all that many. I was content with mesposo being a technique you cannot dodge for various reasons, but seeing all these custom one that can't be dodged doesn't make sense.

No matter what attack the person uses, in some way they should be able to dodge. You cant tell me that a person with 100,000 speed cant dodge a feather (pure example, no offense meant) that is thrown at him by someone whose speed tops 2k. Seriously? Now I can see someone being surprised by the attack so the first time its used in battle its undodgable or even undodgable to those under the users speed, but to everyone and every time? I just don't see how thats realistic.

Those with sense and/or greater speed should be able to dodge those who are slower in combat, it only makes sense. Why else have speed as a stat?

What do you think will happen with this streak of 'undodgable' attacks?
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Yon
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If someone wants a move to be undodgeable, they should be limited to using it only once. It is only fair.
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Diive
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That is precisely why my custom fundi is "very difficult to evade the first time it is used in battle". Not undodgable. I don't believe customs should be allowed to be undodgable.
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Gosai
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I kinda gotta agree with Diive here. If IF you're gonna trump it up from 'Very difficult to dodge' to 'Undodgeable' perhaps that should only count the first (perhaps second if it's a technique that can be somehow concealed until the last moment) time it's used.
I like the concept but each time it's used in that fight it should get a little easier to see what's coming.

Mesposo was also a rather weak technique. One could argue it sacrificed power for being able to strike just about anything. Perhaps there could/should be a strength limit implemented?

Just my $0.02. With that you can get a couple of Tootsie Rolls still, I think.
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Koyu
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Mesposo has a stronger version called Suiken, )which makes no sense, considering that means "drunken fist") which does 1.5 damage. Upgrade that to level 3 and you can have an undodgeable fundamental which does level 2.5 damage.

There's nothing particularly wrong with allowing people to have undodgeable fundamentals for that reason alone, I think. If those attacks were bumped down to "nearly undodgeable," which I think everything should, because there's always a chance your opponent is insanely faster than you and/or totally saw that coming. Heck, even shunkan-ido only makes something nearly undodgeable.

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Just my $0.02. With that you can get a couple of Tootsie Rolls still, I think.


The corner store near my place charges five cents for one Tootise Roll. >.<
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Kagetane Hiruko
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my detonation tail doesn't even imply undodgable due to its strength as a fundamental, but when used right, it can be just as hard to dodge as mesposo. indeed there are many undodgables, but you forgot to mention Suiken. Suiken is a stronger mesposo, but still undodgable. Meaning it can be compared to the current streak of customs and after all, those are JUST fundamentals, hardly worth dodging in a fight, even when they come from friggin Pan herself.
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Volg Zangief
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I must say that I agree, most fundamentals should not be evadable. I will soon be editing my own custom technique to reflect this thread. Fundamentals have very limited damage levels and are the bare minimum as far as techniques. Ones role play must be very skilled to make good use of any fundamental. And for those who cannot role play it in that way would create a move where they wouldn't have to. It's as simple as that...

I would also like everyone to note that only the skilled role players which I speak of have posted in this thread so far.
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OldTarble
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I agree 17, that is why they should read "nearly undodgable". All techniques can be evaded with a skilled RP.
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Seta
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I don't like them myself and I usually check on people who have such customs to make sure they aren't spamming them. It's unfair. And kind of silly when you're going up against someone who is extremely fast. How can they not dodge something thrown by someone much slower than them?

Meh... It really depends. I try to use my best judgment. If it's super weak then you put undodgeable I might approve it if I think you'll be good about not spamming it.

The only thing i have a big problem with is people wanting criticals on everything they get. Even the fundamentals. I don't quite believe funds should have crits.
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Alex
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I don't think people should be able to create undodgable fundamentals. Mesposo is supposed to be unique.
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Seta
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I dunno. How many customs are there that are undodgeable right now and I'll take a look again?
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Blank
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I believe that 'undodgeable' should cost SP, like the other critical effects. However, a tech that is undodgeable should also be limited to one or two uses per battle.

An example would be with an electrical-based attack. It would be very very very unlikely that someone would be able to dodge the attack because we all know how fast electricity can move.

Obviously the technique will also need to make sense and have a decent reason for being undodgeable; not just because someone wants it like that :/
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AiYiYi
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First, what streak? the only undodgeable tech request I have seen. Is the one I made Feather Shot. Feather Shot was made undodgeable as it seems very throwing knife like and you cannot see them whilst there in flight. How, does someone with 100,000 speed dodge something if they cannot see it coming?

Feather Shot (2 damage, 6% Ki)
Mesposo (lvl 3) (2 damage, 1% Ki)
Suiken (lvl 3) (2.5 damage, 2% Ki)

So, I feel the tech is pretty well balanced for its effect being 6x Mesposo's cost and all. But, I agree with Pan I think undodgeable should be okay as long as the techniques arent being spammed and as long as they don't surpass Suiken in power.
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thechosenone816
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Jai,Dec 4 2010
06:33 AM
Feather Shot was made undodgeable as it seems very throwing knife like and you cannot see them whilst there in flight. How, does someone with 100,000 speed dodge something if they cannot see it coming?

That's the point though; someone with 100,000 speed can and will see it coming, because their eyes are a heck of a lot faster than someone with 1,000 speed.
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OldTarble
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Jai,Dec 4 2010
06:33 AM
First, what streak? the only undodgeable tech request I have seen. Is the one I made Feather Shot. Feather Shot was made undodgeable as it seems very throwing knife like and you cannot see them whilst there in flight. How, does someone with 100,000 speed dodge something if they cannot see it coming?

Feather Shot (2 damage, 6% Ki)
Mesposo (lvl 3) (2 damage, 1% Ki)
Suiken (lvl 3) (2.5 damage, 2% Ki)

So, I feel the tech is pretty well balanced for its effect being 6x Mesposo's cost and all. But, I agree with Pan I think undodgeable should be okay as long as the techniques arent being spammed and as long as they don't surpass Suiken in power.

There were two others, but they were changed to either advanced or a new tech all together.
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OldPapa
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I don't like undodgeable custom techs, because that puts unfair pressure on the rest of those without undodgeable techs to make similar ones to compete.

I didn't write undodgeable in the new tech that I have requested, or even nearly undodgeable. I think that 'nearly undodgeable' should not have to be written into a tech because a skilled roleplay will be able to dodge it anyway (opponent) or make it nearly undodgeable (user). That's redundant.

And I support criticals, because again, don't many people already have them? And why shouldn't we be able to compete with players still around from the era of 2 advanced customs and 1 custom finisher (never having donated to the site to get it/them), on top of the players that already have criticals.

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Seta
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You can still get custom finishers by donating... So it isn't that big of a deal. My finisher could have had a critical but it doesn't.
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Diive
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Papa Bush,Dec 4 2010
11:11 AM
I think that 'nearly undodgeable' should not have to be written into a tech because a skilled roleplay will be able to dodge it anyway (opponent) or make it nearly undodgeable (user). That's redundant.

The quality of RP on this site varies greatly. If I could control who it was I would be battling against 100% of the time, the description would become "redundant". This is not the case.
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OldPapa
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@Pan - It may not be a big deal to you, but let's see if that would change if you had to pay 60 dollars in order to continue using your custom finisher. You'd complain and say that's not fair, because you already have it, and that's the problem. You didn't pay and everyone else does. Don't get me wrong, I would do the same thing.

So what I am trying to argue, aside from it actually being kind of a big deal around here, is that criticals on custom fundamentals aren't unreasonable, considering what's already out there.

They should be allowed, but that doesn't mean they will be awarded.

@Diive - Hmm. I'm torn between arguing for or against, because a judge is there to rule on hits, while a person will dodge/block/evade something anyway even if it is 'nearly undodgeable'.
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Kagetane Hiruko
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Actually bush, almost everyone, including Pan, who had their custom finisher before the limitations, did use technique mastery for it, because back in those days a tech with Tech mastery costed no SP.
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OldPapa
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Is that so, Chill? So it's always cost 60 dollars to unlock a custom fundamental? I didn't know and I'm sorry for being an ass about it. So I owe you an appology, Pan. Sorry.
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Seta
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Yeah. It's always cost money to get a custom finisher. It's alright. I initially donated for the IT.
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