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Android 13 Fundamental
Topic Started: Apr 3 2018, 03:01 AM (509 Views)
Android 13
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Redneck Android
Technique Name: Disrupt
Attack Power: 0
Ki Drain: 5%
Action Cost: 1-2
Description: Android 13 releases a small electromagnetic pulse that disrupts incoming attacks. Negates a single ki attack, DR7 or under. Doesn't work on charged techniques unless also charged. One use per battle.

Ki Cost: 16 SP
Edited by Android 13, Apr 3 2018, 09:31 AM.
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Anat
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If it's cancelling an attack it can't work on a charged advanced tbh
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Beerus
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Is the Attack DR < 7 post use (So like Charge, Empowerment, burning, random item, ki manipulation, ect) or at it's base. I assume whatever DR is posted as coming at you. Then I have to ask things that reduce DR like Ki Buffer first then use this and now you can negate even more (Things like Paladin Set too).

Since it is Ki attack, I assume only 1/2 effective against Hybrids or not at all or completely?
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Cado
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I am okay with it reducing charged damage like Kiai does. But if someone is using one of their power up slots on energy charger, 2% extra ki to charge it, and an extra action, it shouldn't be able to be slapped away. Just feels bad honestly lol.

Maybe as an advanced but def not as a fundie. Fundies shouldn't be able to 100% slap away a charged advanced. I know 17's can, but that's under specific conditions tho
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Dabura
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Quote:
 
Technique Name: Disrupt
Attack Power: 0
Ki Drain: 5%
Action Cost: 1-2
Description: Android 13 releases a small electromagnetic pulse that disrupts incoming attacks. Negates a single ki attack, DR7 or under. Only 50% effective against techniques charged with 1 action, or 25% against techniques charged with 2 actions. One use per battle.
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DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Cado
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That seems pretty straightforward to me. I am okay with it. I don't think there are any finishers that are ki attacks under DR 7, because the ones under DR 7 are not 'attacks.' But I'll just add with my approval that it cannot be used on finishers, obviously.

Now, due to the wording, would it work on AoEs by completely disrupting them? There is precedence, with Opal Electricity or KAD or things that absorb attacks. But those things are not fundies. I think it'd be fine if it reduced the damage for everybody else. But protecting four people from a DR 7 completely might be stretching the power of a custom fundie a bit too much.

If it works on AoEs in that fashion, I would think reducing the DR by 1 or 2 would be okay. Obviously for you, you would be immune. I mean strictly for allies. It's just the wording on that which is making me think this way. If it does not work on AoEs that way ignore this and I'd give it my 1/4 approval.
Edited by Cado, Apr 8 2018, 09:13 AM.
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Dabura
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If I could reduce AoE's by 1 DR and still work fully for my portion, then that's what it does. :3
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DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Cado
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I would think that is fine and give my 1/4 approval. However, yadda yadda, please note the rest may not share this opinion, it's just my opinion, etc.
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Anat
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I gotta take that back btw. We're discussing stuff
Edited by Anat, Apr 10 2018, 01:06 AM.
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Anat
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Gonna leave this open because we’re.. trying to.. talk about guidelines on fundamentals. They’ve been termed “custom deflects” and they may be banned. More information on that when I can. For now, just letting you know where we are
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Yan Cass
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"25% against techniques charged with 2 actions." No. We've already had this conversation on why this is a no.

This should only affect you, no AOE defenses, its not an absorption tech.

Without that, tell me how this is different from Kiai. Electromagnetic pulse vs sound wave is not good enough for me. Like I could RP Kiai the exact same way, which to me is too similar.
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Dabura
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Well it would cost me two actions to get that 25% which is a lot for a small defense. On one hand, you're saying the description is important because it's too similar to Kiai, and on the other you're saying the description of Kiai doesn't matter because you can RP it however you like. The AoE thing isn't even in the latest rendition of the tech (nor any of them).

Maybe you're unaware of what an EMP is? It's in no way similar to sound. You could never confuse the two. What's the difference in Galick Gun and Kamehameha, lol?
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DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Bassolarr
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I get that you're using multiple actions in order to accomplish a defense against an attack, but the site has a LOT of defensive abilities as it is. I don't think allowing a custom fundamental the ability to reduce a charged attack by 50% is a good idea, but most folks seem to be 'okay' with that, pending Anat's thing about banning custom 'deflects/kiais' or whatever. The 25% reduction on a two-action-charge attack at less than DR7 seems like such a narrow niche that it would probably never come up--and besides, there are very, very few things that can even effect two-charged attacks. I don't know if a custom fundamental is something that should have that ability.

Also, the fact that this can work on a Finisher is a total No-go to me--I don't care if most are over that DR7 threshold, a fundamental should not be capable of just negating a Finisher.
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Dabura
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What finisher is under 7 DR lol? It being a fundamental is hardly relevant when it's single use. The only difference in an advanced and a powered up fundamental is uses per battle anyways. Whether or not you find that 25% useful is not exactly important either. Typically people treat blocks like 25-50% reduction anyways.

This technique isn't better than Kiai. It won't work - at all - against an advanced tech that is DR 7.5 base - or anything charged past 7. That's a billion moves. This gives me a way to deal with weeeeeaaaak advanced and that's about it man.
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DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Bassolarr
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Quote:
 
What finisher is under 7 DR lol?


Body Bind. Again, I refuse to allow a fundamental to be able to completely diffuse a finisher.

Plus, I'm not sold on the DR7 bit--you stated in a post before that if you could lower the DR of an attack, you would be able to use this on an attack. So things like Paladin Set and Ki Buffer immediately come to mind. So again, I think its too potent for a fundamental.

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Jeice
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Body Bind isn't an "attack" though so it wouldn't work on it, same as other techniques/items with that wording. Also like existing things, lowering the DR of an attack THEN using this wouldn't work and no where did I say that it would.
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Bassolarr
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Dabura
Apr 8 2018, 09:34 AM
If I could reduce AoE's by 1 DR and still work fully for my portion, then that's what it does. :3
Then you need to be more precise about this. When you word things like this, it feels like you're specifically being vague for a future situation.

And I reject the notion that Body Bind isnt an attack--that would mean that I could use Time Freeze and Body Bind and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Body Bind is totally an attack.
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Dabura
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I shouldn't have come at you like that, I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be vague, that's just a misunderstanding. I disagree that a technique without a DR is an "attack" because there are multiple other instances of the "attack" wordage where something without a DR doesn't apply.
Edited by Dabura, May 10 2018, 09:30 AM.
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"It is pride that turns angels into demons."

DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Bassolarr
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Dabura
May 10 2018, 08:28 AM
Lol, you're something special man. I responded to the question asked. Just because you don't understand what was said doesn't mean I was being vague. Also just because you feel like something is one way doesn't mean it is. In every other situation on the site, an attack is defined as carrying a DR. Even in your bogus damage system, Body still ain't got a DR associated with it.
Wait what? Where and when did you get the impression that an attack requires a DR to be associated with it? If that's the case, you wouldn't be able to defend against Body Bind in the first place because you're insisting its not an attack, same as Chou No Ryoku or Galactica Donut, despite the fact those techniques are geared specifically to debilitate the opponent in some way.

I don't know who has been saying a technique has to have a DR to be an attack, but that's inaccurate--there's a lot of techniques that do not carry a DR that can be considered an attack. In fact, Flame Shield has a DR and is often considered NOT an attack because 1) that would allow a lot of boosts to apply to it and 2) it isnt directly attacking the opponent (yet).

At this point, the definition of 'attack' can be left up to interpretation by each Ref on the site, and if that is the case, then we also have to balance each custom defense technique around both interpretations.

And as "bogus" as my Vitality Drain system is, indeed, it doesn't assign a drain value to Body Bind--because the damage of the technique is losing a whole post. That is the downside of taking the attack--because it IS an attack--because it has a debillitating effect if you do nothing about it.

Once again, I insist that this technique should have no effect on Finishers or techniques charged with more than one action.
Edited by Bassolarr, May 10 2018, 09:37 AM.
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Dabura
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Only read the first paragraph, but yes, I already said it wouldn't work on Body Bind.
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DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Dabura
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Jeice
May 6 2018, 01:44 AM
Body Bind isn't an "attack" though so it wouldn't work on it, same as other techniques/items with that wording. Also like existing things, lowering the DR of an attack THEN using this wouldn't work and no where did I say that it would.
Said so here.
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DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Dabura
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Also, just off the top of my head, Second Wave requires a DR. Empowerment too. And Reversal.
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"It is pride that turns angels into demons."

DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Bassolarr
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Quoting yourself isn't a proper source, though--under that logic, I could say whatever I wanted in another thread, quote it in a different one, and that would somehow be correct? I get that you already mentioned it wouldn't work on Body Bind, but that's not the point. The point is that a fundamental custom defense technique should not be allowed to mitigate or negate a Finisher in any way. The Body Bind stuff itself was really just an aside--particularly because if we have two different definitions of what an attack is, how can we come to a compromise as to what this technique is supposed to do?
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Dabura
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Barrier wouldn't block 90% of Chou No Ryokus effect because it's not an "attack" thus not literally damaging.
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"It is pride that turns angels into demons."

DaddySenpai - Tomorrow at 12:40 AM
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Bassolarr
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Dabura
May 10 2018, 09:39 AM
Also, just off the top of my head, Second Wave requires a DR. Empowerment too. And Reversal.
And where is that posted? Pretty sure second wave just mentions Ki cost. Reversal can also work on Chou No Ryoku, pretty sure.
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