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FEEDBACK REQUESTED: The Avalon Protectorate; Please submit your feedback here.
Topic Started: May 14 2018, 12:21 PM (286 Views)
Bassolarr
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I've spoken to a few of the RP Guides on the site, and before we can really nail down on the reformations needed for the Avalon Protectorate--especially since we will be solidifying the themes and lore of the faction in detail--we would like everyone to submit their feedback on what their impression, inspiration, and thoughts on the Avalon Protectorate and Paladins were in the past and present, and in addition, if you have recommendations on how the AP should proceed, be reformed, or radically changed, please express those as well. Right now, the Paladins are the least populated faction at the moment and we hope to change that--but before we can, member and site feedback is reauested in this regard.

Much like the Of The Season nominations, those that post and explain their thoughts on the AP will be awarded DP for their help and participation, though the amount is relative and up to discretion for the moment. Thank you for your time and attention, and I look forward to reading your feedback.
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Raiosu Kirishi
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I think the avalon protectorate needs more quests and special abilities to make it stack up to the keliouxian scholars. And I mean, really, really needs them. Being a paladin kind of sucks at the moment with just righteousness being the only ability you can get for working on their quests. IMO what it should do is focus on androids more because they're supposed to be very technologically advanced anyway.
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Yan Cass
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The reason we're asking this is in order to form a basis on what to make new quests about and how to rebuild the Paladins in a way people respect and enjoy. There seems to be conflict in the general understanding of what the Paladins should and should not be, so we want to sort through that instead of just running with our own ideas without input from the community.
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Hayami
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I suppose since I used to be one of the active Paladin players, I should get my perspective on how they were in my stories. I'll split it into 3 sections. Before the war, during the war, and after the war. I'll make a couple of post since I'm driving right now.

Before the war, they were Radical towards the changelings, what was that parlayed with the changelings, and general evildoers in general. Think Ma Cho from Dynasty Warriors 3. Alex told me that the paladins were sort of like the judges from Final Fantasy 12.

Order a military structure I RP'd that they worked in squads are there two to three paladins and some regular Avalon soldiers. The paladins would be between say level 2 swordsmanship and level 3 swordsmanship. The most elite Paladin's were the player characters or high rank NPCs.
Edited by Hayami, May 14 2018, 06:41 PM.
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Elemento
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The way I've approached the Paladins as both Elemento and Tien is sort of similar to something resembling the Jedi order, combined with something more traditionally militaristic (a mixture of ranks inspired by American and British military). In passing I've stated that Paladins can work in squadrons, particularly at lower levels. I've also mentioned "elite" Paladins and I'd liken that aspect of the order to the saiyans and their class system, though with less vitriol and blatant disrespect toward the low class.

That aspect aside, I've also roleplayed the order as having an extraordinarily thankless job that's simply too big for them. They don't have the manpower to handle it all, in terms of strength or numbers. So while they are upholding justice across Avalon to a certain extent, they can't do it all. Which in turn leads to certain parts of the world being lawless, the Cougon Plains in particular. In that respect, I've got them constantly fighting an uphill battle. They're the supposed lawbringers of the planet and they're a bit out of their depth currently. I don't know if that's something others have done or not but it's definitely been a pretty massive part of all that I've done there and will continue to be.

As for quests and the like, I think the ones that are currently available are on the right track and should simply be expanded upon. Maybe elaborate on the more space western-like sensibilities of the world and it's government; mining operations, corrupt businessmen, outlaws, and things that would be jobs for the order, etc. The more protectorate oriented quests in particular could be less side questy and more elaborate, dealing with internal affairs, something like that saiyan ambassador quest we already have. Have them be higher level, hard or very hard at least. I've been meaning to propose a few quests for the planet for a while and should probably get on that at some point. Either way, I've done a lot of stuff there and plan to do a lot more in the future.

Edited by Elemento, May 15 2018, 12:20 PM.
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Hayami
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I've felt that they have started to struggle at least starting during the war. The Plains area is one that I've sort of not touched on, but in the cities and surrounding colonized areas, they most had them under control. However, in my mind, or my stories, that started to change in the war.

Ever since they lost Namek, the government started to distrust anyone who wasn't Avalanian by birth, though that doesn't mean that their more ground level commanders and the like are like that. In my mind, the loss of Earth and Kanassa, one basically right after the other, to their hated enemies (PTO) and the Saiyans (if my memory serves right) has basically led the government to a more total distrust.

As for how I currently portray them, its more of a "we are in need of the assistance, so we'll let you help, but we're gonna keep a close eye on you" type of situation. As before, though, the more ground level commanders are more trusting of other races.

In the past, I believe Tatsuda? I can't remember his name right. But the Avalanians pre war were also very weak power level wise. They used devices and weapons to try to even the odds. However, Avalon was under heavy restrictions ever since the time they sent out troops that had power level limiters with them. I'm not sure how many people remember that one, but I do. I'd say since the war the Dojo that had maybe seen less visitors started to get flooded.

As for religion, Gnar was something I dabbled in. He was a deity that believed in Eliminate Evil Immediately. (Basically Hajime Saitou from Rurouni Kenshin). I believe that phrase fits Paladins themselves rather well, a sort of motto. Or at least in the past. As I moved away from playing a Paladin after the war, I'm not really sure how they are portrayed by others.

As the way I've handled their government during Vegeta's saga, they are still a council of elders, but since they would need to have meetings with the other universal powers, they would either send: a representative of the council and an Elder in a ship, or just a rep that they could trust. This lone rep would be only Avalanian in my mind.
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Uriel
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I was around when Tas started the first galactic war. If I recall correctly, the Damaskan wrecked Avalon and even invaded the planet. That was 2008.

Now I um, cough, left, right as that was happening. Site drama put a stop to the saga so I'm not sure how this was resolved. Never bothered to read up. But yeah, the Avalonion's being weak before makes sense.
I had way more important things to do then to approve a trivial zolton buy.


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Kaine
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Since we do have Paladins shouldn't their be by any chance for. Dark Paladins......A way for a paladin to renounce his path and go down the evil way. But since they have small numbers have another way for becoming one in a quest. I guess making a small event on Avalon for paladins where many others can join. Placing a special kind of reward for the small event to get everyone in the mood for paladins.
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Hayami
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Kaine
May 15 2018, 01:37 AM
Since we do have Paladins shouldn't their be by any chance for. Dark Paladins......A way for a paladin to renounce his path and go down the evil way. But since they have small numbers have another way for becoming one in a quest. I guess making a small event on Avalon for paladins where many others can join. Placing a special kind of reward for the small event to get everyone in the mood for paladins.
No.

I only say this because there's already two (basically) evil Organizations, with two being neutral, and the Paladins being the only "good" Organization. There's already a big difference in the balance, so I don't think it'd be advisable to do more than say there's a small cabal of former Paladins who've turned evil. But tbh, they would have likely joined other organizations and were just absorbed into them as those Orgs.
Edited by Hayami, May 15 2018, 02:21 AM.
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Hiiragi Junior
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Hayami
May 15 2018, 01:41 AM
Kaine
May 15 2018, 01:37 AM
Since we do have Paladins shouldn't their be by any chance for. Dark Paladins......A way for a paladin to renounce his path and go down the evil way. But since they have small numbers have another way for becoming one in a quest. I guess making a small event on Avalon for paladins where many others can join. Placing a special kind of reward for the small event to get everyone in the mood for paladins.
No.

I only say this because there's already two (basically) evil Organizations, with two being neutral, and the Paladins being the only "good" Organization. There's already a big difference in the balance, so I don't think it'd be advisable to do more than say there's a small cabal of former Paladins who've turned evil. But tbh, they would have likely joined other organizations and were just absorbed into them as those Orgs.
well when you think about it there's kind of something in existence for this what with the fallen Paladin armor set from a saga or something. As well as Rebel Paladins. So there's honestly ways to go about it.


I agree the paladins need more quests items and abilities.
Edited by Hiiragi Junior, May 15 2018, 08:30 AM.
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Bassolarr
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I dont think the issue is more stuff in general, per se, but rather the theming behind the faction. We've had conflicting themes for the Paladins and protectorate in the past and we want to correct that with a unified theme.
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Bebi
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Bassolarr
May 15 2018, 09:52 AM
I dont think the issue is more stuff in general, per se, but rather the theming behind the faction. We've had conflicting themes for the Paladins and protectorate in the past and we want to correct that with a unified theme.
This pretty much sums up a lot of misconception about this thread.

We want to know how the Paladins are viewed from a lore and IC perspective. How do you picture them as? What do you view your average Paladin to embody? This is less about items and quests and what would redract (or encourage) you to role play as Paladin.
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Shaoran
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I thought I did some of that tbh...or at least how I rp'd them.

To me, they are zealous about JUSTICE and upholding laws. At least the most fantastical. I'd say that'd be in an even harder swing, since the Protectorate (to my understanding since the end of the War) is currently just Avalon itself.

Those that aren't as zealous won't uphold all the laws, and there would even be those that would do things like keep an eye on the Star Wolves by joining them to make sure they don't kill Avalanian merchants when their ships are raided.

The "lowest" Paladin trainees would likely be between the two, overly zealous to impress, but not as knowledgeable about the laws and letting things slip (unintentionally).
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Bassolarr
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Shaoran
May 15 2018, 11:54 AM
since the Protectorate (to my understanding since the end of the War) is currently just Avalon itself.
That's silly.

Even now, the Avalon Protectorate still controls roughly 15-20% of the known galaxy--just because they lost Earth and Namek doesn't mean their whole government went to crap. Confidence is at an all-time low and theyre experiencing a recession, but that doesn't mean the Protectorate is limited to just Avalon.

That being said, if people want the Paladins to be the super-good-guys in armor, or religious-knights-in-space, we are willing to go in either of those directions, we just need the feedback from those that RP'd as Paladins in the past and those interested in them now. We are willing to entertain the notion, we just need the direction.
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Yan Cass
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I like a lot of this, but I split in a few ways.

As Bass wrote, Avalon is still in my mind a heavy lifter. The Protectorate was never just Namek, Kanassa, and Earth. They have many planets under their protection like Damaskia in canon (see various quests) has many different planet colonies that are simply not power players like Earth, Namek, etc and thus are not on the main map. Avalon fucked up in the war, but the war also didn't touch a lot of their back water planets and they held their ground there. Everyone seems to down play the Paladins and Avalon, but they are a major organization and a few fuck ups in one official saga isn't going to completely squash that.

On that note, Cougan Plains being lawless and going into what Elemento said sits well with me. To me Avalon are busy bodies. In a way, they pay more attention to the Protectorate than their own people. Their armies are spread out across the southeast galaxy, and their goal is protection and order. As long as they keep that for the most part they're good.

Ganr being a 'punish the evil' type is a HUGE NO for me. Ganr empowers true neutral parties, not lawful paladins. This is part of the reason I want to push for neutral Paladins and maybe make them a separate branch like Rem had suggested way back when. There would be a quest or quest line to become this specific kind of Paladin and then you'd be able to take the other lawful quests without being lawful.

Like, I am so down with them being a Jedi Council, and at the tip top, they need to be neutral and balanced, but like the Jedi's they kind of get swept up into being the good guys. The main military government is on the side of lawful good, and they always do what they think will tip things into goods favor (the light side of the force baby), but the elders themself seek balance. Avalon is the opposite of Damaskia, meaning they should be all about Order vs Chaos, and keeping that order is most important to them and they seek it in the Protectorate.

(obv my opinions are just one in the waters, and like the whole reason for this thread cause I don't want to just do what I think they are lol)
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Hayami
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I mean its fine if you think they should be neutral-good, but then there's no actual balance between good and evil. More just evil and neutral.

But like I said, that was how I did Gnar. But Saitou was not a morally good person. He was more like true neutral. He'd kill those he believed evil, that didn't make them evil people.

But that's just how I played them. Their zeal didn't always make the best choices.

And I suppose, but I think they even list Kanassa...unless that was my imagination.
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Hayami
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But anyway, since what I did was all years ago, is more just my personal opinion. Or just a piece of Avalon.
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Yan Cass
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You don't have to be evil to be Shadowguard, though Chaotic is preferred. You can be neutral or evil to be the PTO. The Saiyans are also supposed to be split into two factions to support people who play good or evil Saiyans. But I'm still saying they lean heavily towards Good like PTO leans heavily towards evil. Like I said, I'm huge on the Jedi Council view point, which even though they were meant to be a more neutral presence to keep order and balance in the universe, there was the constant struggle between the light side (good) and the dark side (evil) and they were on the good side with more gray areas. Gray areas are always good in my book, but I still want them to be the good guys and agree they kinda need to lean good to balance the site. One of the other main reasons I want to bring neutrality more heavily into it is because Ganr's Hand is the only True Neutral perk and is Avalon based, which seems stupid if Avalon has nothing neutral about it.
Edited by Yan Cass, May 15 2018, 04:17 PM.
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Whis
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So I have some knowledge on this Paladin stuff or at least what I have been doing.

Pre War - Knights of the Old Republic style Jedi Knights. They fought for what was good over all else and fought to protect others. They tend to be very weapon focused and often are geared like typical paladins where they have heavy armor and powerful weapon (mostly swords) usage.

During the War - The task to protect everything started the development of the RBC Units which became the Steel Legion. This ended poorly and caused countless lives to be lost and everything they had fought to protect to fall.

Post War - The rebuild has seen for making amends for past failures. It is hard to tell how much still needs to be done. Current focus has been around Making Avalon Great Again... or something like that. Make a strong base and help out in the future when they can again, but do it responsibly.


That is just a short idea that I have used. Oh Whis is a Paladin too.... Not that he is really active, SK was the active one.
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Uriel
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May 15 2018, 11:54 AM
I thought I did some of that tbh...or at least how I rp'd them.

To me, they are zealous about JUSTICE and upholding laws. At least the most fantastical. I'd say that'd be in an even harder swing, since the Protectorate (to my understanding since the end of the War) is currently just Avalon itself.

Those that aren't as zealous won't uphold all the laws, and there would even be those that would do things like keep an eye on the Star Wolves by joining them to make sure they don't kill Avalanian merchants when their ships are raided.

The "lowest" Paladin trainees would likely be between the two, overly zealous to impress, but not as knowledgeable about the laws and letting things slip (unintentionally).
That seems more like templars, kind of like the Protoss. I played a religious zealot in different life. I'm not that's what the paladins should be because lie others said, that doesn't leave a lot of variety of characters.

Again, it's been a while since I even thought of that faction.
I had way more important things to do then to approve a trivial zolton buy.


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Hiiragi Junior
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The paladins to me come off as a solid order who value highly the virtues of valor, pride and righteousness. That's what drew me to to put Junior into the order. So honestly they would come off as a galactic police type set up. The protectorate seemed to me like it would be in the business of taking in refugees and giving them a chance to rebuild their lives, like anyone who escaped from Calderon prior to its destruction. Also like i said given that we have the existence of Rebel and Fallen paladins there's actually room for quite a bit of variety.

Rebel Paladins could be this order of folks who while they go out to defend those in need, they have little to no trust in the government thus kind of being like vigilantes. Fallen Paladins being the ones who completely reject the order and use their skills and live as they see fit.
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Bassolarr
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Okay, so far from what I've been reading from people is the following:

Paladins need to be:
- Good aligned, preferably lawful good, perhaps even super good
- Protectors, super-elite, larger-than-life badasses for the force of good
- Some level of Divine mandate, either from some divine power or from Ganr in some way. I get that Ganr is neutral, but it stands to reason that the Paladins take a very Lawful Good interpretation of Ganr's teachings. As such, that leaves room open for Rebel and Fallen Paladins as well.

Does that look correct? Additionally, what about the Protectorate as a government and faction? Should it be one and the same or distinctly different?
Edited by Bassolarr, May 16 2018, 05:34 PM.
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Uriel
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Not sure what super good is but yea. My only concern is they would be more like fanatics and that seems to not be the case.
I had way more important things to do then to approve a trivial zolton buy.


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Hiiragi Junior
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Probably distinctly different. To me the Paladins are the faction while the Protectorate as a whole exist as a government entity.
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Uriel
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Would it be kinda like the Myrmidons from the Greek empire?
I had way more important things to do then to approve a trivial zolton buy.


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