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Post by Cell on Sept 5, 2021 21:11:11 GMT -5
Currently it gives, let’s say, 80% power level. This number unfortunately changes and it can be difficult to know who has used it.
What if it functioned more like dragonball games? It’s a power up. By spending one action and a prepared item slot, you eat from the fruit of the tree of might, gaining an in-battle bonus of +80% all stats. It would obviously be permanently re-usable.
That way, you don’t automatically rocket launch into the top 5 for using it, which should ideally represent how many words you’ve written. It would be easier to tell who has used it. It would change with updates; if it needs to be raised or lowered, it won’t be disruptive to the affected characters. Also, if you use it at 100k power level and regret it, that sucks. But this way it’s always relevant.
Seems better. We’re not discussing changing it, this is just a suggestion. What do you guys think? Please answer from the perspective of site health and balance and not how things may affect specific characters individually- those things can always be polished.
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Post by Goku Jr on Sept 5, 2021 23:13:48 GMT -5
In the Tenkaichi games Turles had a power up where he bit the piece off of the fruit of the ToM. The working idea you have isn't bad and I support it, but to overhaul ToM into a trumped up Rage Reed calls into question what the "equivalent" of an "evil HBTC" would look like moving forward,
Making an item called "Piece Of The Fruit Of Might" that worked similarly to your idea wouldn't be bad as a whole but I would hardly call that a viable suggestion considering the immense risk that comes with ToM.
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Post by Cell on Sept 6, 2021 0:02:17 GMT -5
HBTC has a really strange and specific bonus so I don't know. I could probably think of some ideas, since just adding a % to a passive seems kind of underwhelming and not unique. But I also wouldn't want to change things just to match other things. If anyone has HBTC ideas that would be cool to hear.
It would be similar to Ganr's Hand, the neutral one, though. Do you think it wouldn't be worth the risk? To me, this would be a pretty large buff; by giving a %, it is scaling forever with your character. At 100k, you are getting the same % as you would at 500k. However, it is also a bit of a nerf because it's no longer your base. You can't eat the ToM and then go Super Saiyan and get insane bonuses for example, they'd add but not stack.
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Post by Quark on Sept 6, 2021 0:11:33 GMT -5
I like the idea and I think it still justifies the risk. The gains aren't changing, but now they scale with your character growth. Tbh 80% is too high though.
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Post by Cell on Sept 6, 2021 4:43:34 GMT -5
Yeah sorry I don't remember what the bonus is, it would be current amount but lowered a bit to account for the scaling. So like if it IS 80% now, then in this scenario, it would be closer to 55-60% or something.
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Post by Quark on Sept 6, 2021 4:56:11 GMT -5
Yeah, its 2 usages at 40% or 300k.
I personally am less inclined to go for something like that because its buffing it to a point that justifies a question about HBTC gains. I am all in support of the concept of it being an item rather than a once off thing though.
Acknowledging your earlier point about wanting the good and evil choices for ultimate shit to be unique, I think perhaps something more in line with Dragon Ball wish level of extra stuff for the ToM that scales to Black Star wish on the second usage (which I'm pretty sure doubles it anyway). With it as it stands, that'd be a choice to the user between +3kk all, +20% to one stat or +15% to all stats. That way as the DB wish values go up or down, so does the value of the ToM and this question doesn't need to be revisited ad nauseum.
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Post by Cell on Sept 6, 2021 5:02:57 GMT -5
HBTC gains should totally be questioned, I hate that shit lol. The HBTC gets buffed like every 1-2 years, I don't think it's working.
+15% all stats is pretty low though compared to 80%. I think there's a happy middle somewhere, like perhaps the fruit having multiple uses ("bites") in a fight and each bite gives +10% stats up to x%. That way it's not overbearing but it's not something small either. Or it gives 40% all stats but only lasts for x turns and has 2 uses, etc. I think there are a few ways to balance it for sure. Which I think is awesome because you can't do that with the normal ToM at all. When someone uses it, it's used. No changes allowed. As an item it's easier to keep balanced with the site.
Having HBTC function in a similar way would be awesome.
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Post by Dr. Ghast on Sept 6, 2021 18:34:25 GMT -5
Not sure, but I funny enough usually seem to be the only one or at least one of the few who dares to think HBTC is in all ways superior to ToM.
Your suggestion is nice though, but at the same time if we turn it into something like that...you could turn the tree of life into something similar and just create an all new thing that's more in line with HBTC in regards to weirdness and would also be subject to those donation items that "up" the uses.
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Post by Broly on Sept 7, 2021 11:03:47 GMT -5
I have to agree with Halsey. I think HBTC is far better than ToM. First of all HBTC is an easy and have no risk thing that just happens. Second, it increases a passive- having this on Adventurer or Champion can increase the passive an addition 85% I believe if stacked? That being said it is a few time use with an ever lasting lingering effect on passives.
While ToM is a HUGE PL buff, I won't deny it, it is extremely difficult to even accomplish. You need a planet to attempt to destroy, most high PL people will 100% try and stop you. Most of the attempts to ToM are unsuccessful and I think that is important to note. If anything ToM (with its limited use) needs slightly buffed to allow it to be more easily accomplished and or give something more than just PL. Either this or HBTC needs to be adjusted to give something less impactful because the benefits over time are far superior to rapid PL buffs of ToM
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Post by Puar on Sept 7, 2021 11:43:38 GMT -5
I like the direction of this. HBTC did go from only giving stats and FS boosts to doing that AND giving a lingering passive boost.
So how about this. ToM stays about the same, because we do not want to completely change a mechanic, and after you have used a boost you get to keep a 'Plant of Might'. It will always grow a piece of fruit for you that is cursed with the essence of the doomed planet you sapped the energy from and when eaten in battle will give you a boost to your stats dependant on the times you have fed the plant.
First time you ToM, you use it to heal 20% damage and fatigue and boost your base stats by 5%.
Second time it increases to a 40% heal and you boost base stats by 10%.
Obviously these are just numbers, lol. Like you don't have to take the actual numbers literal just the mechanic itself.
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Post by Shell on Sept 7, 2021 11:53:10 GMT -5
So are we saying that ToM that if Mira used right now would give him 1.3 million PL is not good enough? This is 162,500 or 88000 all stats with the 85% boast if you do all yours into 1 thing like adventurer. This is over 1.5 million words written in Psagas (when you take out the all gains from HBTC). Which then if we also assume player 1 and 2 both actually RP at the same rate and 1 doesn't have it and the other does it would be slightly over 2x that in order to actually make up the ground...
Also who was the last person to have a ToM contested? What % of ToM usage have even been contested?
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Post by Kale on Sept 7, 2021 12:18:36 GMT -5
So are we saying that ToM that if Mira used right now would give him 1.3 million PL is not good enough? This is 162,500 or 88000 all stats with the 85% boast if you do all yours into 1 thing like adventurer. This is over 1.5 million words written in Psagas (when you take out the all gains from HBTC). Which then if we also assume player 1 and 2 both actually RP at the same rate and 1 doesn't have it and the other does it would be slightly over 2x that in order to actually make up the ground... Also who was the last person to have a ToM contested? What % of ToM usage have even been contested? I think the last person to have their ToM contested was Eski by Recoome. I agree with Shell that ToMs benefits fan be profound at higher levels like his example, but I am not opposed to ToM giving a long term benefit as a usable item. I think something that could give a percentage of PL in the middle of the battle would be a nice perk, but not too high I'd say 5-10% range or some form of utility like a heal like puar suggested.
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Post by Puar on Sept 7, 2021 13:13:17 GMT -5
The issue that is presented is that HBTC has better utility and long-term usage. Sure, you can get 1.3 million PL but what makes the game interesting isn't just PL. HBTC gets Fighting Style Levels, DP, SP?(forget lulz), EXP, and a boost to passives up to 80% its effectiveness. I think all ToM needs is a minor long term plan after using it. Its all about the continuous hit of dopamine.
So maybe ToM just needs a linger effect, that's all. It doesn't need to be boosted or anything of the sort anymore. Probably like something neat...shit I have loads of ideas for what a ToM could do. We do not have to always go back to the show itself for motivation, we can create something fresh.
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Post by Broly on Sept 7, 2021 13:49:42 GMT -5
I agree with Puar. I am not saying that ToM isn't good for the PL. What I am saying is after the PL buff there is nothing. Yes you can get major PL twice, but that is it. You get nothing (and no speed mind you) from the PL gain. If you even get the PL gain. On top of that, HBTC just has better lasting effects. Yes you don't get the huge PL buff, but that is the only benefit. Im not saying don't lower the stats, I am saying if it is to be adjusted give it basically a decent PL Boost (like the show) and then maybe a special tech that is like "Fruit Of Might" grants 10% base stats in battle from eating the fruit of might or something that is just a lasting effect.
FS, Exp, and passive buff is better in the long run than a single larger buff to PL. Especially with battle gains being better in general now. Also stating that Mira can do it and get x PL is a gross outlier. Most people are like 1.5mil and under that would even be tempted to tree of might.
EDIT: Also Jared attempted to ToM and failed not but a year ago. Eski was another one, and there have been plenty others. Those are just the recent ones. The ones that go uncontested are when people pay other people to buy a planet and ToM for free. Even then they are contested.
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Post by Cell on Sept 7, 2021 14:10:00 GMT -5
I have to agree with Halsey. I think HBTC is far better than ToM. First of all HBTC is an easy and have no risk thing that just happens. Second, it increases a passive- having this on Adventurer or Champion can increase the passive an addition 85% I believe if stacked? That being said it is a few time use with an ever lasting lingering effect on passives. While ToM is a HUGE PL buff, I won't deny it, it is extremely difficult to even accomplish. You need a planet to attempt to destroy, most high PL people will 100% try and stop you. Most of the attempts to ToM are unsuccessful and I think that is important to note. If anything ToM (with its limited use) needs slightly buffed to allow it to be more easily accomplished and or give something more than just PL. Either this or HBTC needs to be adjusted to give something less impactful because the benefits over time are far superior to rapid PL buffs of ToM I think there’s some confusion, it cannot increase a passive by nearly that much.
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