|
Post by Cell on Sept 7, 2021 14:15:29 GMT -5
I’d also like to point out that for years, there were threads about how HBTC was worse and needed buffs. It got buffed almost annually. Now if HBTC is allegedly better, the solution wouldn’t be to buff ToM. That’s how power creep happens- ideally we would balance both to the point where changes are just small number changes or there’s no changes at all.
That’s basically what this suggestion is. It’s not meant to be a buff or a nerf, rather just a change so that it can be managed. Making it a battle bonus instead of a permanent addition. That way it’s always useful and never problematic.
|
|
|
Post by Broly on Sept 7, 2021 14:50:19 GMT -5
Making it so it is a battle bonus instead of permanent is a nerf 100% though. Especially if you look at what HBTC can do now. I know that there has been years of buffs to HBTC, its in a great spot tbh. But because it is in such a good spot, ToM is effectively worse. Changing, buffing, nerfing, whatever you want to call it doesn't matter. You can lower the perma stats of ToM and give it a lingering effect like base stats in game, or some kind of pass that would be fine.
But if you make it so it is a useable item in battle only- most likely would have a limit use, it is still a nerf. Because the reason why HBTC is better is simply the lingering effects- not the short term. I will take a 80% increase to Champ 3 any day over the current 300K PL I would get. Because I know with a 80% champ 3 buff I can get 300K PL in a few battles- ultimately leading to an even greater PL buff than ToM would have given me, without including the FS levels and other stuff. To look at the past instead of the current shouldn't be the focus right now.
We should be objective, look at what one gives vs the other. See where the balances need to happen. If we view HBTC as balanced- we should raise, lower, or rework ToM to match it slightly.
Lets focus on making ToM feel IC rewarding, fit lore, and build from there.
ToM needs to buff PL, that is most lore fitting. but it needs to give something more than just PL because that isn't worth much tbh with the buff of active RP gains. I could purpose a similiar boost to something like HBTC. A few options are as followed;
1) Grants a % of the average top 25 PL along with an increase in battle of base stats or super form stats by 5% (up to 10% if you ToM twice) 2) 350K PL divide by 8 into all stats including speed. This just gives you 350 /2 for ki /4 for all stats. Then also grants "Fruit of Might" a prepared item that gives you +1 action where spd and str are double. Can be used once per battle. cost a prepped slot. The second benefit to ToMing again would simply be the stats or the fruit itself (meaning the first time you ToM you wouldn't get it) 3) Same as above instead of an item it grants an ability. Possibly an addition advanced or even finisher slot. or an entirely new tech only able to be learned through ToM'ing.
These are the first few that come to mind. They aren't balanced and they are just numbers thrown out. It is more of the ideas I want to focus on rather than the numbers. The main goal is keeping ToM as a PL bonus (like the show) and then just giving it a little something that has lingering effects. This in my opinion would balance it- while changing what needs changed about it. I think the time frame, the risk factor, and everything else are acceptable- even if it is challenging.
|
|
|
Post by Cell on Sept 7, 2021 14:58:18 GMT -5
Again it wasn’t a suggestion or question of balance, guys. It was a question of changing a bonus to be constant or dynamic allowing for it to stay relevant at all times.
One major advantage of this would be keeping track. People aren’t keeping track of their ToM/dojo/etc usage which is half the equation. The other half is scaling. Right now the #1 could gain like 2 million PL. the #25 could gain like 100k. That’s not a well-designed mechanic. Rather, it was designed like 20 years ago when these things weren’t scenarios to account for.
Not wanting to buff or nerf.
|
|
|
Post by Cell on Sept 7, 2021 15:11:51 GMT -5
But if you make it so it is a useable item in battle only- most likely would have a limit use, it is still a nerf. Because the reason why HBTC is better is simply the lingering effects- not the short term. I will take a 80% increase to Champ 3 any day over the current 300K PL I would get. What if it functioned more like dragonball games? It’s a power up. By spending one action and a prepared item slot, you eat from the fruit of the tree of might, gaining an in-battle bonus of +80% all stats. It would obviously be permanently re-usable. It sounds like you’re in favor of this suggestion tbh
|
|
|
Post by Puar on Sept 7, 2021 15:16:05 GMT -5
Again it wasn’t a suggestion or question of balance, guys. It was a question of changing a bonus to be constant or dynamic allowing for it to stay relevant at all times. One major advantage of this would be keeping track. People aren’t keeping track of their ToM/dojo/etc usage which is half the equation. The other half is scaling. Right now the #1 could gain like 2 million PL. the #25 could gain like 100k. That’s not a well-designed mechanic. Rather, it was designed like 20 years ago when these things weren’t scenarios to account for. Not wanting to buff or nerf. I will piggyback on this and steer this back into the actual discussion at hand. Turning the Tree of Might into a Usable Prepped Item that once per battle boosts stats by a percentage is pretty good. It scales with you no matter what, just like HBTC does. So the suggestion is still pretty good imo. It isn't a nerf or a buff. We could make it just like the HBTC actually, just for the HBTC vs. ToM nerds. Tree of Might - Takes 1 week to blossom and takes up to 3 additional weeks to grow. As it grows, a user planet slowly loses life on its planet (It is not destroyed). For each additional week after its blossom, the fruit becomes stronger. The fruit can be picked at any time, but once it's picked the tree itself will wither away. It produces a 'Fruit of Might'. Fruit of Might - Prepped Item. When eaten increase a stat in battle by 25%. For each additional week spent growing the original Fruit of Might, you add +25% to an additional stat. ^ Just an example, nothing concrete.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Ghast on Sept 7, 2021 15:39:22 GMT -5
on clarification though, the original way how ToM and HBTC were compared to eachother was that HBTC was one heck of an early game leg up for lawful peeps, while ToM was more of a late game action that could benefit those of chaotic/evil.
However, while HBTC has been buffed significantly, ToM has been seriously nerfed, there is also as Vegeta stated the whole: when you try it, you'll most likely fail aspect. Mira does have a point about the PL, but that's coming from someone who most likely wouldn't be stopped anyway, so that's a moot point.
|
|
|
Post by Cell on Sept 7, 2021 16:20:48 GMT -5
I think we have enough to go off of and discuss, I appreciate the input everyone! Looks like we have some stuff to think about.
|
|