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Post by Yan Cass on Dec 13, 2019 16:56:41 GMT -5
So Time Freeze becomes a topic of conversation every time its used, so rather than just a staff convo, I’m opening this to all opinions.
Current Admin Ruling:
The obvious use is to move your friends out of the way of a dangerous attack as well as place your opponents directly in front of one targeted at them to make it very difficult to dodge. The questions are:
- Should it require you to use one action to dodge the attack targeted at you after you use Time Freeze?
- Should accepting your ally’s Time Freeze movement cost you an action like IT?
- Should an opponent be able to move you in front of friendly fire?
- If so, should an opponent be able to move you in front of an attack you already reacted to? (ie. Yan posts an attack, Juch posts after going “what a pretty attack!”, Hit posts putting Juch in front of the attack he watched happen and complimented)
- Can it negate a dodge?
- Should you be able to charge an attack within it?
What was allowed in the last battle and how the tech works as of right now (and maybe has forever except that time with the stuns):
- Costing an action to dodge
- Not costing an action to accept the dodge
- Moving your opponent in front of friendly fire
- Moving your opponent in front of an attack they already reacted to
- Cannot negate a dodge
- Cannot charge shit
Please try to keep things constructive. Avoid insulting things.
Keep in mind:
- The technique costs 25% ki
- It costs one action to activate
- It doesn’t increase the actions in your post to actually guarantee you’ll have three interrupted actions
- I am not trying to get this nerfed to be worthless
- It can be used twice tho.
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Post by Not Cell on Dec 14, 2019 20:59:24 GMT -5
Yes and no. It should require you to dodge attacks in one action. So, if there are ten attacks coming from your opponents somehow, using Time Freeze should allow you to dodge all of them at once. You have enough time to find that one place where you won't be hit.
Here's where I'm gonna say something controversial: Touching someone while in TF should disable TF for them. Meaning they can then move normally during those actions. This is the only way to concretely disable the bullshit that's apparently been happening, and to prevent people from trying it in the future.
See above. If you touch my shoulder while I'm frozen, I'm unfrozen and you can't move me. Because I won't let you. Quit touching me.
And again, see above. Stop touching me.
And again again, see above. Stop touching me.
Yes but only the first action of a charge. In other words, can I freeze time and come out with a fully charged spirit bomb? No. Can I, in an instant, start to charge a spirit bomb? Yes. Mechanically this wouldn't be super beneficial and I don't see many people using it, but from an RP standpoint, whatever power is allowing you to stop time requires intense concentration, but should act like an Ioun Stone. Meaning you've got an instant where you're doing both things, but then the initial thing fails. Would this make it incredibly difficult to then dodge the resulting attack? Yes. But at 25% ki, you goddamn better know what you're doing when you use it.
I would like to note that from my perspective, Time Freeze shouldn't be used offensively. It's supposed to give you time to do support actions and reposition yourself or what have you. Hence, defensive actions should be easier but offensive actions should be more limited. This includes moving your opponents which is... incredibly offensive in both terms of the word.
Also note that I haven't read the current battle, really. I'm just speaking of my general opinion on the subject.
As an aside I think the ki cost should be reduced to 20% and Guldo should be able to use it for 10% (to keep with current bonus)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 0:54:20 GMT -5
Yes.
Yes.
Yes. As a side note, we don't actually have friendly fire. We have AOE's that are not targeted and hit everyone on the battlefield, allies included. We also have AOE's that are targeted and hit only your enemies. What we DO have is rules against targeting people on your team - for obvious and heavily abusable mechanic reasons. There is also no splash damage mechanic (thank god) so in reality, yeah you should probably take some damage being within a particular proximity of some 'single target attacks' but we all realize how messy that can and would get and refuse to bring that level of BS to the table. That big ball of ki coming at you will hurt you just as much as it's intended target.
Maybe. I think keeping the flow of time and taking into account what kind of attack is being launched are crucial.
Probably not unless you want to pull a Goku and attempt to retrain your opponent.
No.
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Post by Not Cell on Dec 16, 2019 6:31:32 GMT -5
Yes but only the first action of a charge. In other words, can I freeze time and come out with a fully charged spirit bomb? No. This would still allow an instant, fully charged, in your face, Spirit Bomb from out of Time Freeze with a Sunstone, or any tech really so long as you're neutral or higher. Fair point. But what if... not that? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 15:19:07 GMT -5
*Inserts gun into mouth and pulls trigger* *slumps slowly down the wall as brain matter and blood erupt against the wall and ceiling*
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Mila
Story Teller
Posts: 1,154
Organization: Kelioux Scholars
Race: Android
Status: Open Roleplays
Soul: Major Second
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Post by Mila on Dec 17, 2019 23:07:58 GMT -5
Time is weird, that is like something I think we all can agree on. When something is frozen in time, you should not be able to move it. It's frozen in time. I'm also using the words should and not can't, which is a big thing. This is a site for creativity so I'm not one to hinder creativity at all. If you can move things while time is frozen that's pretty neat, but shouldn't happen.
This move also cost an entire fourth of your usable ki to use and that is a hefty price. So that is a big reason why so much stuff should happen during the technique itself, even when it can't. One thing I'd like to see, if the movement into an allied attack is still a thing, is that you would have to spend actions as if you were using IT to dodge something to dodge certain moves. If it's charged with more than 2 actions or something like that it should take 2 actions to move someone into the attack or dodge it.
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Post by Jared Miruzuki on Dec 18, 2019 11:59:20 GMT -5
- Should it require you to use one action to dodge the attack targeted at you after you use Time Freeze? - Yes- Should accepting your ally’s Time Freeze movement cost you an action like IT? - Yes- Should an opponent be able to move you in front of friendly fire? - No- If so, should an opponent be able to move you in front of an attack you already reacted to? (ie. Yan posts an attack, Juch posts after going “what a pretty attack!”, Hit posts putting Juch in front of the attack he watched happen and complimented) - No- Can it negate a dodge? - Absolutely not- Should you be able to charge an attack within it? Yes but 1 charge action max, unassisted (IE no Sun Stone) |
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Post by Yan Cass on Jan 15, 2020 14:17:26 GMT -5
Charging up would be Time Frozen, but the actual attack would be fired normally meaning it would be just as easy to dodge as normal, you simply would not have the charge actions to use Transform, Use an Item, Charge your own attack to counter it. As I said TF doesn’t give you free actions, so you are still spending the normal actions to charge up, meaning your opponent has given you the time to or you’ve sacrificed for it. It would essentially just be another Sun Stone, except more costly as you're sacrificing ki and actually spending your actions. It’d still be super good still though.
But ignoring that debate, it seems to me everyone (except Bebi) does not want this tech to work the way it currently does with being able to meta people in front of their ally’s fire. (Anyone on Bebi’s side speak up bros.) Taking this away however makes the technique a little weak for that ki cost so I would propose the change to be:
-No (A1. Time Freeze is the dodge.)
-Yes (You need to accept a TF dodge)
-No (You cannot move people in front of their ally’s attacks)
-No (See above)
-No (See above)
-No (can’t charge)
-Decrease Ki Cost to 15% (somewhere between 15%-20%)
That makes it a poor man’s IT that you can use multiple times per battle and assist your allies with, which is still super good. You could still move your opponents in front of your allies attacks to make them basically teleport hard to dodge, which again, is super good.
Thoughts?
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Post by Galactic King on Jan 15, 2020 22:59:31 GMT -5
- Should it require you to use one action to dodge the attack targeted at you after you use Time Freeze? - Yes- Should accepting your ally’s Time Freeze movement cost you an action like IT? - Yes- Should an opponent be able to move you in front of friendly fire? - No- If so, should an opponent be able to move you in front of an attack you already reacted to? (ie. Yan posts an attack, Juch posts after going “what a pretty attack!”, Hit posts putting Juch in front of the attack he watched happen and complimented) - No- Can it negate a dodge? - Absolutely not- Should you be able to charge an attack within it? Yes but 1 charge action max, unassisted (IE no Sun Stone)Time Freeze cannot create a defense or create an attack. It can only augment a defense or augment an attack. What I mean by this... if you move an enemy in front of their ally's attack, you've made an attack for them and you've removed an attack on yourself. In my mind it's obvious that isn't allowed but if it needs to be said, there we go. Only thing I'll disagree on is the last bit. You're spending a fuckton of Ki, you get 3 actions, you should be able to use them. If you want to dedicate an entire post to using time freeze and charging your laser.. that's your business. As a finisher it is designed to finish battles. Should be allowed to do so. |
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Post by Axel Stone on Jan 17, 2020 21:11:04 GMT -5
Pretty sure the primary complaint was the whole 'moving people' bit with Time Freeze. I don't know if using Time Freeze to dodge attacks was the issue--it's mostly the whole moving people into and out of the way of attacks that seemed particularly abusive.
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Post by Jared Miruzuki on Jan 18, 2020 2:01:55 GMT -5
Pretty sure the primary complaint was the whole 'moving people' bit with Time Freeze. I don't know if using Time Freeze to dodge attacks was the issue--it's mostly the whole moving people into and out of the way of attacks that seemed particularly abusive. This pretty much. I say simply don't allow it. |
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Post by Yan Cass on Jan 18, 2020 11:12:12 GMT -5
I mean we can just make that an admin ruling and aim to change ki cost next patch. I do think it should be cheaper.
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Post by Yamcha on Jan 20, 2020 22:30:17 GMT -5
These are the final comments on Time Freeze until Alex or Azazel decide to change the technique officially.
- Should it require you to use one action to dodge the attack targeted at you after you use Time Freeze? - Yes
- Should accepting your ally’s Time Freeze movement cost you an action like IT? - Kinda. Either the time freeze user or the person being moved should have to spend an action.
- Should an opponent be able to move you in front of friendly fire? - Yes, at the cost of an action. The opponent that was moved should receive an extra action.
- If so, should an opponent be able to move you in front of an attack you already reacted to? (ie. Yan posts an attack, Juch posts after going “what a pretty attack!”, Hit posts putting Juch in front of the attack he watched happen and complimented) - This is irrelevant.
- Can it negate a dodge? - Nope.
- Should you be able to charge an attack within it? Yep.
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Post by Yan Cass on Jan 21, 2020 21:07:21 GMT -5
Those are not the final comments, but Digu, if you have an opinion to why you think Time Freeze should allow you to move your opponent in front of ally’s fire I would love to hear it. I was waiting to see if anyone else agreed with Bebi before closing this. If it’s just a simple, it should that’s cool too. Probably going to modchat soon anyway.
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Post by Kale on Jan 21, 2020 22:10:16 GMT -5
My stance as to whether you should be able to move people in time freeze. I would say yes to move your buddies out the way of attacks, and it should have to spend an action just to spend something for guaranteed safety, plus that's what it's like for IT.
I'd say in terms of causing friendly fire it would be best to limit it to technique with an indiscriminate AOE quality like Ion Blast/Rapid Ion Blast. In the case of an attempt to negate a successful dodge the least messy route would be to disallow it, blasts would likely already explode against something after they missed and a beam would be well on its way to orbit. I don't see an issue with using time Freeze to move someone closer to an allies attack to make it harder to dodge though.
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